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Eco Zealots

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Idlebantam, Oct 11, 2022.

  1. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    They are all clueless idiots who clearly need to educate themselves on a lot of things.
    1. The UK has been right at the forefront of lowering the country's environmental impact since the 80s. We have been at pre-industrial revolution levels of carbon emissions and other pollutants for about a decade now and they have continued to reduce after that.

    2. The UK's consumption of Gas, Coal and Oil is tiny compared to the likes of China and India or even Russia and the US. In fact its small compared to most European Countries. And much of what we do burn is done so in greener ways than many of these countries so even if we did burn as much as China or India it would be less damaging.

    3. Green Energy simply isn't efficient enough. To produce the same level of power that a coal power station produces you would need to fill the whole of the isle of wight with Turbines and that's on a perfect day. A coal power station basically can operate at a consistent level 24/7 but with wind you need the right kind of wind, too little and it doesn't work, the wrong direction it doesn't work and even if its too strong it doesn't work (they have to turn them off to prevent damage). I think we had 29 days in 2021 where no Wind power was generated last year anywhere in the country. And look at France, they are going to require any place with more than 80 parking spaces to put Solar Panels over the top of the spaces. Now a Quick look at Bradford's council website shows me Bradford has 15 Public Car parks and 5 Private ones. And that doesn't include things like Schools/Colleges/Uni (At least 4 of the Educational establishments I attended had more than 80 parking spots), Hospitals or Private Businesses. Just think how many such places to park must exist in the whole of France. And how much power do they think that will produce? Enough to take 21 Nuclear stations offline. Sure that sounds like a lot but France has 56 of them so it's not even half but is taking up way more footprint.

    4. Green Energy is actually expensive to set up. Let's look at the Severn Barrage as an example, initial estimates put that at £30mill. It just under double when initial estimates for a Nuclear Plant costs (This is England so in reality, you can double those amounts for both). And then we get back to the inefficiency. The two largest barrages are in France and in South Korea. The French one is 750m long and the South Korean one 12.7km. Despite being newer and much longer the South Korean one produces 254MW compared to the French one at 240MW so despite decades to improve the technology and a way bigger barrage its only seeing an improvement of 14MW. In comparison, a Nuclear reactor produces over 3000MW.

    5. Green Energy isn't really all that Green. The environmental impact is massive. They kill animals directly (especially large birds with Turbines) while destroying habitats that are important. What good is killing of the flora and fauna in an attempt to save the planet for them and humans

    6. A big part of going green is batteries, we need them for storing electricity produced by green methods and also for storing power for things like cars and other things that otherwise we would need fossil fuels for. Batteries though need Rare Earth Metals and their very name tells you something, they are rare at least in quantities that are useful. There are actually not enough minable quantities of these to produce the batteries needed to meet the commitments the developed nations have made when it comes to Electric cars. Let alone to batteries for other things such as battery stations for storing the power produced by solar panels on residential buildings. Oh and these rare earth metals aren't just needed for batteries, all electronics require them.

    7. Mining rare earth metals is also not environmentally friendly. They are massively toxic and mining them causes issues both for wildlife in the area but also for humans
    So all in all not only are they largely targeting the wrong countries, be it here in the Uk especially but also in many of the other countries where they are doing protests but they are also pushing for something that technologically isn't really viable and if we try and do more here in the UK not only are there diminishing returns but the side effects are worse than the benefit. Until there is a breakthrough on the tech side in various areas, which there is a good chance that the UK will play a big part in these as both on a public and private level we are investing a lot of time and money we aren't in a position to curb our fossil fuel usage or in the current energy crisis not try and exploit untapped reserves of fossil fuels.

    And that's before the hypocrisy most of these idiots show with their travelling around the country, often by fossil fuel-powered transport, using fossil fuel-derived glue & paint, using electronics that are powered by fossil fuels and causing cars to be stuck in traffic jams burning more fossil fuels. And their actions are putting others at risk, we are seeing accidents on roads that aren't really designed for the level of traffic as people look for other routes, we see emergency services getting blocks in traffic or having to take longish detours and we also are seeing some of the emergency services having to be committed to cover the protest meaning they aren't available for other things
     
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  2. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    That's all very well but their actions have precious little to do with oil and gas, it's just a vehicle for anti-capitalist anarchism ...
     
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  3. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    Participating in a system doesn't disqualify you from trying to improve or change it. firstly, you don't know how they got there you're just speculating. do you know what glue they used specifically? also, have you got any emprical proof in say something like increased wait times for emergency services as a result of these protests?

    look how much police time is dedicated to football matches when they could be out catching criminals.

    I don't think this sort of protest is particularly effective but lets at least have some solid well thought out criticisms of them rather than pure conjecture.
     
  4. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    They are all complete utter worthless TW4T5, will that do ... ?
     
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  5. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    Well thought out criticism?

    They're all horrible c***s that need a damn good flogging.

    Is that well thought out enough for you?
     
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  6. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    If they came out and admitted that's what they really are, an anti capitalist movement I'd have more respect for them. There's a theme that runs through them, pretty much all Vegan, all believe that green energy can power the world, pretty much all of them come from middle class background. This is more than just some middle class anarchists though, police are already infiltrating and stopping cars of protestors now before they get to their destinations in some cases so it's more than just students and retired public sector workers with an axe to grind. Somebody is funding it
     
  7. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    I don't believe that, I really don't ...
     
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  8. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    No it's just obnoxious crap actually, it has the same value to me as the protests do
     
  9. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    nope
     
  10. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    [QUOTE=" Somebody is funding it[/QUOTE]

    Rich parents
     
  11. Idlebantam

    Idlebantam Squad Player
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    I know we don't see eye to eye politically mate, but you are better than this.

    It doesn't need much thinking to see these cretins are just lazy Eco terrorists.

    They are blantly stopping hard working folk going about their business, trying to stop people from working and wasting police time.

    I read that one poor bloke missed the birth of his child yesterday, that's one of lifes greatest pleasures taken away from him. Another bloke was trying to get to his dad's funeral.

    They are a disgrace and vile cretins is a polite way of labelling these people.

    Do you actually condone their illegal protests?
     
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  12. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    I've said multiple times I don't think this form of protest is effective or useful based on who it is they need to convince to create effective change. However I can also see why they feel driven to such extreme lengths. What about my generations' kids who will have a miserable, largely horrific life being born into a world that is collapsing due to an uninhabitable climate. What about the life moments and opportunities being robbed from them by collective failure to take meaningful action on this issue? I think apart from the extreme fringes, the overwhelming scientific consensus is change needs to happen and it needs to happen on a grand scale in a short time frame to avoid the kind of destruction to our own nations like we are already seeing in smaller nations such as Tuvalu. There is ample evidence out there in such places as to what will happen to us if we continue on our current trajectory.



    There is a reason these sorts of protests are dominated overwhelmingly by younger people, and why greta thunberg wasn't leading the pensioners climate strike for example. A lot of people on this forum will likely be dead by the time this is an issue to this degree but these youngsters absolutely won't be and I can understand on that level why they feel motivated to act in such an extreme manner, even if I don't agree with the method myself. In fact that's arguably the thing I find the most frustrating about these protests, if anything they are just making things worse and making it harder to achieve any kind of progress.
     
  13. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    Sounds like you've fallen for it, never mind ....
     
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  14. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    The thing that really sold it for me was a girl I was seeing down here who has actually born and raised in Tuvalu, it's hard to argue with someone who can't go home because their house has fallen into the sea.
     
  15. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    Aye, the world will end in less than 100 years due to the huge 26 degree summers we're experiencing.

    I remember working through this one and I honestly wouldn't have survived with the co-op putting magnums in with the freezer filler special.
     
  16. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    That was hilarious well done you
     
  17. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    About as hilarious as your extreme view about an "uninhabitable climate".

    We currently have people living in all climates from deserts to vast spells of darkness and sub zero temperatures so your attempt at sensationalism just makes no sense.

    Does climate change need to be discussed? Yes.

    Is it the impending apocalyptic scenario the eco zealots would have us believe? Absolutely not.
     
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  18. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    That's good because I wasn't trying to be funny.

    An uninhabitable climate means different things in different regions, it's not rocket science. Here it means things like sea level rises meaning less liveable and farmable land, more extreme weather events i.e flash flooding leading to a much greater risk to life than we see now. In a region that provides large amounts of food for other countries, it means changes in climate causing mass scale crop failure meaning much less food to go round. These are things that are beginning to happen whether you like it or not.


    This is from 2019, so already 3 years out of date.

    https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2022/06/SPM_version_report_LR.pdf
     
  19. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    It really doesn't.
     
  20. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    Now you're just being dense. A place with a warm climate, will get warmer. A place with a cold climate, will get colder. how is that an abstract concept to you.
     

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