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COVID-19

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by king karl, Feb 15, 2020.

  1. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    But any mask reduces the two way viral flow to some degree. Some masks such as PP3 are around 95% effective, others less so. But even a 10% reduction reduces the spread to some degree. Not all cloth masks are rubbish - if you go on Amazon you'll find almost all the affordable cloth masks on sale are three layer. The blue disposable ones that many people wear are good at reducing outward transmission, which must reduce the level of infection.
    The fact that you wear an ineffective face covering and don't cover your nose doesn't mean that everyone does - I see many people around wearing masks correctly and the fact that they do must result in some degree of lower transmission than would be the case if no one wore masks. Even a badly worn mask reduces transmission to some degree.
    We mustn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Your argument is like saying it's pointless cleaning your teeth for 30 seconds because you aren't doing it for the recommended two minutes, when some cleaning is better than none at all.
    The fact that you clearly don't like wearing masks is blinding you to the fact that some reduction in transmission is better than none.
     
    Bronco and Stafford Bantam like this.
  2. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    I've argued throughout that restrictions should make a tangible difference for them to be imposed. Mandating poor cheap masks is not tangible and like I have said before it is like mandating any old seat belt.

    I know people love the NHS mask comparison, well would you be happy to be operated on by someone wearing a poundshop unicorn mask?

    Cases are falling through the floor and the people in hospital are now starting to drop in England (People actually in hospitial with or from Covid).

    As for the some reduction is better than none, we can all watch the football on ifollow instead of turning up at the ground. That reduces the risk. However we would prefer to be at the ground watching the game so we accept the risk. I don't accept wearing a mask forever for a minimal reduction in risk, I'm happy with the risk, the vaccine has made me comfortable with the risk and on that basis I really have no problem going to a football ground with 15k others none of which are wearing masks than watching it at home, even though I could reduce my risk by watching it on ifollow.
     
  3. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    When there were a load of other countries keeping their numbers low by doing small mitigations people said "mask mandates work" and you could see some logic in that statement.

    Now that countries with very strict mandates are seeing enormous numbers the opposite logic doesn't apply?

    There is very likely to be some reduction in transmission but not every reduction in risk needs to be mandated. It's the same thing again to a degree, everyone is going to be exposed to the virus eventually and a reduction in transmission doesn't change that - it just changes when.

    The great thing with what we know now after 2 years is that you can control your own risks to a degree. The FFP3 masks give a decent level of personal protection so if Covid worries you definitely wear one (and get vaccinated) - it's much more controlled than having to rely on what other people are doing.
     
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  4. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    A PM spokesman has said,

    So Boris hold gatherings at No10 which are against the rules, and when those rules allow him to carry on with his job as a double jabbed boosted person who has been in contact with a positive case (which probably hasn't happened anyhow) he decides to go against those rules aswell.

    This is the man who we have running our country, someone who is clearly hiding from scrutiny ignoring his own guidance once again. If you actually have Covid you only have isolate for 5 days now following rule changes, yet Boris will be hiding away upto and including Tuesday next week as per his spokesman.

    What a shithouse.
     
    Offcomedun likes this.
  5. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Funnily enough though, it's not all about you.
     
  6. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    But any reduction in transmission is a good thing at a time when hospitals are struggling. It also reduces the likelihood of further variants which, contrary to what some people think, aren't necessarily progressively less harmful:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/11/will-covid-19-become-less-dangerous-as-it-evolves?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
     
  7. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    It's about a balanced level across the board.

    We could remove road deaths by removing motor vehicles.

    There is a level where the reduction in the risk of transmission is moved to an acceptable level and further reductions are then down to the individual, they are not demanded of everyone.

    There is a risk in transmission from going to the pub, if you aren't comfortable with that risk, it's best not to go to the pub, it's not and never will be acceptable to stop everyone else from going to the pub going forward with major other reductions such as the vaccine in place.

    Masks are going to go, I have no problem with people who want to continue wearing them going forward, but for the small reduction in transmission I won't be wearing them and looking back at 19th July 2021, many millions will not be wearing them either.
     
  8. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Of course masks are going to go. But not while case numbers are at their present levels and hospitals are struggling. Once the numbers reduce and better weather comes they'll be excessive, but right now they are appropriate to the situation.
     
  9. ahar964

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    During the first lockdown we needed some FFP3 masks for some work environments. Had to pay £98.00 for a box of 25 :D. Might even have been 20
     
  10. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Surely we've got past the idea of anything we do in this country reducing the likelihood of variants? There's 10s of millions of cases worldwide every week. Us tinkering around the edges won't make any difference surely.

    As for any reduction in transmissio being a good thing? Maybe. I just don't think that long term it makes any difference at all. I think its another one of those things that give a little bit of comfort that "at least we're doing something" but its probably making very little difference to health outcomes.
     
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  11. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    some were guidance which were neither regulations or laws
     
  12. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    As far as I'm aware though the requirement to only meet up with one person outside your immediate household was law though. That's why police were going round London parks questioning groups of people sunbathing together, whilst turning a blind eye to groups of 30+ in Johnson's back garden.
     
  13. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    You don't, but lots of eminent virologists and epidemiologists don't share your view.
    And this isn't about the long term, it's about short term measures to reduce transmission during the peak winter viral season. No one expects a mask mandate to be in place in three months time.
     
  14. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Me neither. But whether they do it in 2 weeks or 3 months isn't particularly important to me. It's just that they actually are prepared to do it and are honest about the actual effects.
     
  15. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    did it say in a public place? Did it specify that it included crown properties?
     
  16. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Novak being kicked out of Oz on health and Safety grounds is hilarious. In a country with 150,000 infections per day how does a guy who tested negative endanger anybody? :joy:

    People will no doubt take pleasure in him being kicked out but its dumb to enjoy people having rights taken away in such a banana republic fashion even if you don't particularly like the individual.

    Of course, it goes either saying that Australia can do whatever they want with their own borders but we can obviously have an opinion on whether it's appropriate.
     
  17. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Djokovic gifted them a huge own goal by meeting others after testing positive and failing to disclose that he had travelled outside Serbia in the 10 days before flying to Oz. In doing these things he has come across as arrogant, reckless and appearing to believe that rules for normal people don't apply to him. This has massively undermined his martyr status and reduced sympathy for him. That, in turn, has allowed the minister to use his personal discretion to apply the rules without risking a big backlash. It's always been clear that the national government were furious that Djokovic appeared to be being waved through the normal rules by the state and tennis authorities and wanted the letter of the law to be applied rigourously.

    He may have won the court case to get him out of quarantine but that was on a technicality about unfair procedure he was subjected to at the border - ie the failure to give him reasonable time to produce valid exemption evidence. But, unsurprisingly, it turns out that he had no such valid evidence.

    The double vax rule for non Oz citizens may be of questionable utility, but it is the rule. There is no exemption for recent Covid infection, so it is clear that he did not meet the current criteria for entry into Oz and, on that basis, should not have been given a visa and should not have flown to Australia.
     
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  18. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    No wonder Boris was isolation yesterday and till next week. He knew that the Telegraph was about to drop that, what will the Sunday Papers hold.

    No wonder the Sun haven't reported on anything seeing as the part was for their deputy editor.

    As a Tory if the Telegraph turns on you, you are done.
     
  19. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Firstly will you please stop saying that their is no exemption for a previous infection - It's not true, it's there in the rules and has apparently previously been applied. The Victorian and State government apply exactly the same rules apart from the fact that the state immigration officers have a veto on health grounds (similar to the one the minister has used) that can be applied on a case by case basis.

    https://7news.com.au/sport/tennis/how-novak-djokovic-may-have-sidestepped-australian-open-vaccine-mandate-c-5191022

    "One possibility under the exemption guidelines is that Djokovic contracted COVID-19 within the past six months. Health experts, including Tennis Australia’s chief medical officer, Carolyn Broderick, suggest this is the most likely theory given other exemptions being handed out across Australia. “If you look at an Australian group of people applying for medical exemption, the vast majority are recent COVID,” Broderick said on Wednesday."

    But the first bit is my main point - the fact he's come across as a bit of a kangaroo shouldn't encourage people to support these kind of arbitrary interventions dressed up as medical protections when there is no actual medical benefit. That's exactly the sort of stuff that fuels conspiracies that it's not actually about keeping the virus out, it's about wielding additional power. What he did in his isolation period in another country and a relatively minor error on the form shouldn't be used as cover for the use of such draconian individual powers dress up as "for the greater good"
     
  20. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    The Crown Properties may be the angle that Johnson thinks will get him off the hook. But the Queen's diligence in strictly observing rules at Phillip's funeral will make that look pretty hollow by contrast.
    I think you were only allowed one person in your garden at time, or maybe it was rule of six. Either way it certainly wasn't 30+ and I believe it was in the regulations rather than mere guidance.
     

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