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Cost of Living Crisis

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by YungNath, Jul 28, 2022.

  1. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Everyone knows what the price cap is at this point apart from people who are willfully ignorant about it.

    Drives me nuts that the media ask these sorts of questions ad nauseum in the hope that despite explaining it properly 99% of the time they get a single time where it's not clear.

    Of course Truss should get the details right but this is exactly the sort of thing they're actively trying to Gotcha over. It's boring!
     
  2. bantamdave41

    bantamdave41 Regular Starter
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    You see I'm taking it by usage and not cost, simply because there's some creative accounting by our energy providers, in setting direct debits. For reference, my predicted usage, well below the national average, for a two bed, one occupancy is

    2507 Electric
    7398 Gas.

    That said, this includes when I was somewhat frivolous last winter, with the heating. I'll be a bit more prudent, come this winter  I do sleep with the window ajar, even in the winter months. Does no harm...

    In honesty, with the total £550 'government subsidy' ill be a touch worse off but not by an awful lot.
     
  3. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    If you had been involved in fielding questions from people worried about their energy bills, as I have, you would know that this is just not true. And no, many of those people are not wilfully ignorant, they just believe the headline message that has been put out by the government.

    Again, this is just not true, Liz Truss repeated the £2,500 cap lie over and over again.
    https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/energy-bills-liz-truss-false-price-cap-personal-finance-1884305
     
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  4. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    You mean the headline message that is put out in the media? Is just reading a headline about a subject not almost the precise definition of being willfully ignorant about the details?

    Even that second quote that you put out there acknowledges it "The Prime Minister did in some instances insert the caveat that this figure applied to “typical” household bills"

    But they're more interested in playing gotcha by focusing on the mistake - which exacerbates the confusion - rather than explaining what it means. It's equally as unhelpful as Truss making the mistake in the first place.
     
  5. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    I certainly agree that the media have compounded the mistake, but it was the government that made the £2,500 figure the headline message.
     
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  6. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    He may be out of favour at the moment but I don't think we've seen the last of Boris.
     
    #366 Bronco, Oct 3, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022
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  7. bantamdave41

    bantamdave41 Regular Starter
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    Folk being accountable for their actions and understanding. It'll never catch on.
     
  8. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Ofgem called it a price cap back in 2019. It's probably not the most helpful terminology but all it takes is a little explanation and investigation. What's the alternative, try to explain it in terms of pence per KW? That's not going to be any simpler is it?

    But the real point is that if the media ask anyone the same question 100 times they'll eventually get to a point where they can point out an error - especially if you ignore any supporting context or caveats and it's not helpful. Truss should get it right 100% of the time of course but that's the purpose of the game, to find some confusion to generate a headline and it helps nobody.
     
    #368 Aaron Baker, Oct 3, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2022
  9. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Definitely. Imagine having the world of knowledge at your finger tips 24 hours a day and actually thinking you could use unlimited energy during a fuel crisis for 50 quid a week.

    And then complaining because you weren't informed. Suppose they were waiting for Truss to nip round and do individual meter readings for everyone?
     
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  10. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    Direct from the mouth!
     
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  11. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    What are you showing me?

    She literally says "a typical household" What's the issue? That what the price cap is?

    Although it's noticeable that The Independent incorrectly states she's capping energy bills at £2,500 at the top of that video which is pretty much exactly my point,
     
  12. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    Over a series of posts, I have queried a number of policies and promises of Ms Truss(T) and her Chancellor.

    She has quite clearly stated the ‘typical household’ will pay less than £2,500.

    The average household size in London was 2.55 people per household in 2021, compared with the UK average of 2.36 people per household.

    My direct experience is that I am going to be charged more than £2,500. My household consists of two people. I have stated we do not have the heating on from 1st May until 1st October. Then during the other months it is on for 1 hour in the morning and around 5/6 hours in the evening. If it is very cold we may have it on for slightly longer.

    My contention is that our use of fuel is likely to be ‘average’ or ‘below average’, yet our projected Bill is far and away above £2,500.

    So the issue is that I have zero confidence in Ms Truss(T) promise.

    She can promise the world, but the evidence is that she is not going to deliver.

    If she feels the country believes her, call a General Election and let the people choose.
     
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  13. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    According to Ofgem, a typical household uses 2,900kWh of electricity and 12,000kWh of gas in a year.

    I’ve just looked and we are under on the electric and over on the gas

    here are the actual cap on the costs 868C0D12-E4C4-436D-B91E-87ABADAE822F.jpeg
     
  14. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    All you're telling me is that you misunderstand the price cap.

    They're limiting the price that can be charged per unit which means the typical household in terms of usage will pay £2,500. But for some reason you're trying to equate it to number of people in a home which isn't what the price cap has ever been?

    A couple with a child living in a 2 bedroom flat and going to work/school in the warmer South will use less energy than a single person heating a 3 bedroom house and working from home in Newcastle.

    If you don't agree with how much a "typical user" actually uses then that's Ofgems definition and I'm going to be honest, they should know more than either of us or Liz Truss.

    You can even Google how Ofgem come up with the "typical household" and can see within that all the different groupings that they consider. @Storck@Storck has posted the usage Ofgem define as typical so measuring your household against that is the only meaningful judgement.

    But the point remains that she clearly said that the action they were taking would limit the price for a typical household as defined by Ofgem but the headline is that she's "capping fuel costs" which is not at all the same thing. The second implies unlimited usage for £2.5k which is clearly ludicrous.

    I don't think she's going to deliver either but if honesty is important in politics then the media could at least report what she's saying.

    Suppose on the wider point it shows that even if a government steps in and funds probably half of everyone's fuel bill, costing £100bn over a couple of years then people will still bloody complain. Maybe they should pay everyone's bills in full?
     
    #374 Aaron Baker, Oct 4, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022
  15. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    shes spaffing 43 billion on unfunded tax cuts so she might as well?
     
  16. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    Still wouldn't be enough for some, it is hard but government still helping all the way, only thing I have against this is that it should be targeted but that is probably an impossible task, I don't know ..
     
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  17. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Not really though is she?

    She's cancelled some tax increases (which the same people also complained about) which are the majority of that £43bn.

    But this is the exact point about everything flowing through government I always make. It doesn't matter what they do, people always complain, ita why change is so difficult when change is needed and nothing ever gets done!
     
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  18. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    no she hasn't, shes reversed the 45p cut, which is why i said 43bn and not 46bn. please get on top of your numbers if you're going to be snarky.

    i am complaining because the amount of money being wasted on nonsensical tax cuts, she might as well spend that amount doing something that will actually benefit people. part of the problem is some people will defend the government no matter how badly they screw things up.
     
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  19. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Isn't the rest of it going back on the NI rise, etc?

    That's not a tax cut. It's just not implementing a tax rise isn't it? That's not snark btw.
     
  20. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    i think the parts that are stuff like that are a difference without distinction. it's still unfunded and its still going to cost us 43bn, pointless semantic discussion aside. That is on top of the energy bills stuff which is a further 45bn. it is economic lunacy.
     

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