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Chelsea could be in trouble?

Discussion in 'General Football' started by Kevin1954, Mar 10, 2022.

  1. Fuzzy

    Fuzzy Impact Sub

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    The day after Ken Bates sold Chelsea to Roman Abramovich in 2003, Chelsea fan and former Minister for Sport Tony Banks was quoted as saying "I want to know if this individual is a fit and proper person to be taking over a club like Chelsea and until that question is answered, I'm afraid the jury is out."

    Whilst there has undoubtedly been a shift in public opinion on the matter in recent weeks, there has been been plenty of discussion in the mainstream media about Abramovich and his suitability to own a football club for years. It's also worth noting that for all the posturing amongst some commentators that Abramovich is an innocent bystander with no links to Putin, some of the most damning evidence came directly from Abramovich himself when defending a civil case in the UK against a former associate he gave details of a "corrupt payment" (his words) of $2bn he made for political protection and influence.

    As for your comment about "strange logic" I'd have to agree. A lot of people are happy to turn a blind eye to the shortcomings of other club owners, Abramovich is no worse than the likes of Mansoor at Man City or the Saudi PIF at Newcastle and others like Alisher Usmanov who had been sniffing around Everton until he was sanctioned a few weeks ago.
     
  2. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Could you be any more blinkered on this?
    Abramovitch is Putin's crony who got his billions by stealing them from the Russian people in a bent auction sanctioned by Putin. Abramovitch has admitted this fully in a British court of law.
    The fact that the FA and PL have utterly useless 'fit & proper person' tests doesn't alter the fact that Abramovitch got his wealth by illegal means and has been using it to buy success at Chelski. He's a crook, as well as a part of the infrastructure that supports Putin's regime. It's no one else's fault that you can't recognise facts when they're staring you in the face.
     
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  3. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Those last two comments have convinced me you are a WUM.
     
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  4. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    DOH!
     
  5. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    Because he “won” a rigged auction and in effect stole a company from the Russian public. With the complicit aid of a drunk President
     
  6. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    Yeltsin!
     
  7. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Yes, sorry. My mistake. It was Yeltsin who sanctioned the rigged auction, not Putin. But that doesn't alter the substance of the case against Abramovitch.
     
  8. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    No absolutely not, I’d read up on his history yesterday. He’s a facilitated crook.
     
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  9. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Here is why Abramovich is just as guilty as Putin for this war
    1. He was a trusted Adviser to Yeltsin (Which is how he was able to benefit from the corrupt Energy rights sales) and was one of the first and strongest advocates for Putin to be his successor
    2. When Putin got into power who did he have to interview and advise on all the prospective members of his cabinet? That's right it was good old Roman
    3. Russian law limited Presidents to two terms but Putin wanted more. He tasked Roman with finding a puppet to succeed him. And he did, Roman brought Medvedev as the preferred person to run to take over and helped him get elected. While also helping Putin run to be Prime Minister
    4. Roman was hence involved in the great power grab by Putin. One of the first things Medvedev did was to transfer almost all the Presidential power to the Prime Minister, making Putin even more powerful than before. He used that power to remove the 2 terms Presidential limit as well as other changes to make him almost untouchable. It was basically straight out of Adolf Hitler's playbook. Medvedev finished his term, just before it ended all the powers were shifted back to the president and Putin then ran and won (In a suspected dodgy election)
    5. Roman has personally helped fund a number of Putins vanity projects to try and show how great Russia is. This included putting down lots of the money for the World Cup. Also for a long time picking up the wages of Hiddink, Advocaat and Capello as their wages were far outside the figures that the Russian FA could afford. It was the same with Slutsky as well. I'm not sure about the two since, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was still picking up the wage bill
    6. Putin's own Biographier detailed how they had a Father/Son relationship with pet names for each other
    7. US Intelligent services in 2019 named him as Putin's 'bag carrier'. What that term means is he is the one who helped move Putins dirty money around to try and help wash it and hide it. Putin doesn't trust you to look after and 'legitimise' the billions of his dirty money unless you are very close to him.
    8. He was Denied a new UK visa because of concerns from the UK security services. What these are has never been officially revealed but it seems pretty clear its to do with his ties to Putin and the potential for him to use his position in the UK to help Putin's agenda and his covert operations. It also came AFTER Salisbury poisoning which could be a coincidence but the timing seems suspect. Other EU countries were also considering his access to their countries. This is why he used his Jewish heritage to apply for Israeli citizenship, this is something they throw around like its beads at Mardi Gras and grants him a certain amount of access to Europe. That wasn't enough though, he then applied for Portuguese citizenship on a rule that if you had the bloodline of one of the Jews that were kicked out of Portugal you would get instant citizenship. It's now become fairly clear with the arrest of the Rabbi who handled the process of proving the existence of this bloodline for him and a number of other Russian citizens who have ties to Putin that money was paid out to try and keep Putin's cronies access to Europe where they can do his bidding by getting this Citizenship that they didn't actually qualify for
    9. He owns a controlling interest in companies essential to Putin's war effort
    And that's most likely just the top level of stuff, there is no doubt a lot more deeper down that we don't know of. Roman is simply as Guilty as Putin. He should be standing beside him at the War Crime tribunal and should face a firing squad for what he has helped do.
     
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  10. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    The thing is while you can argue that the Fit and Proper checks shouldn't have allowed it to happen, after all it's one thing bad owners including for example here at City shouldn't get through but that's much more complex than what we see at Chelsea, Man City, Newcastle and PSG where we see state-supported sports washing to go on but when he bought Chelsea a lot of the red flags either hadn't happened yet or weren't really known. The level of corruption to get his wealth for example didn't really come under as much spotlight until other Russian Oligarchs started following his lead and investing in Football clubs which shone the whole where did they get their money question into the spotlight. Not to mention when Gazprom, the state-owned energy company was somehow able to buy Zenit and throw ridiculous money at it until FFP put a stop to that, how can a state-owned business in the Energy field afford a football club and justify losing vast amounts of money each year?

    It was also before Putin's Power steal and the actions that highlighted that the 'agreeable' Putin was a facade to lull the west into a false sense of security while he pulled a Hitler and stole immense power while robbing the country further to fund his lavish lifestyle. While it would no doubt still get through the Fit and Proper test, after all they let Saudi Royalty buy a controlling stake in Newcastle despite them being proven to have murdered a journalist simply for being negative about them and who still execute people every day for fairly minor, often unproven things BUT it would have likely got more of a public outcry like Newcastle did if those things we know about him now were more common knowledge then
     
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  11. Fuzzy

    Fuzzy Impact Sub

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    @SimonW@SimonW I've got a little bit of sympathy for the football authorities when it comes to fit and proper owners in relation to foreign owners who, shall we say, are morally dubious because they probably don't have a great deal of power to do much about it without legislation from the government.

    I don't think anyone saw the wolf at the door coming pre Abramovich and to a certain extent with the Man City owners coming in but by the time it came to Newcastle it was pretty obvious that we had a bit of an issue, hence all the controversy. Had anyone had the foresight at the formation of the PL that we should have some sort of moral arbiter to judge suitability of owners on non-financial matters then that may have prevented some (or all) of these takeovers but I don't think we can be too critical of the PL not to predict what has come to pass.

    As it stands, there's no chance of any meaningful change from the PL/FA now. Firstly, there are 3 clubs who will definitely not agree to a change because they know that it's aimed primarily at them and secondly, there's going to be a large number of other owners who will be against it because it will reduce their chances of a massive payday by not allowing them to sell to the next petro-state that fancies a bit of sportswashing.
     
  12. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Yeah with Chelsea it certainly was helped by the fact no-one knew the scale of the issues at the time. Man City while their owners are from one of the more lenient Arab countries (although outside the western quaters designed to allow them to bring in money from Business and Tourism its still very extreme by our standards) should have been more obvious though because their human righst records is pretty awful and they didn't try to hide it was the state buying it. PSG even more obvious.

    Newcastle knew it wouldn't get past if it was just the Saudi Royals which is why first its the Saudi Investment fund which adds a entity in between even though the Royals control that and they also included the Reuben Brothers and PCP capital in the bid who both take more of a role as the public face even though supposedly these other two are minoirty investors
     
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  13. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Now there is talk of them being punished if the loans are written off. The funding was allowed if a loan to be repaid but not as a gift/investment
     
  14. Fuzzy

    Fuzzy Impact Sub

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    Really? It's not the worst issue that Chelsea are facing at the moment but might be a red flag for a potential new owner. Hopefully, there will be a modicum of good sense involved and no one starts to push for sanctions in a way that jeopardises the sale and puts the future of the club at risk. Whatever the future holds for Chelsea, their finances are going to change dramatically compared with the last 20 years.
     
  15. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    I can see the issue mind you. It's like the old way Real and Barca used to operate. That year that Real bought Ronaldo, Kaka and Benzema all that money came from an interest-free loan from Santander. A loan which within 5 years was written off largely because a combination of the Spanish Royal family, local gov and national gov were constantly pressuring loans the Spanish banks gave the big 2 to be written off. It's a massive benefit to a club when they can basically get hundreds of millions or even billions for free.

    Maybe there needs to be something in place where the Government or the FA own the loan debt and the new owners have to at the very least service it at a fair interest rate just so it's not Chelsea have got 1.5billion worth of players over the years for nothing. With the provision that that servicing of the debt (plus anything they pay on top to reduce the debt) is split between good causes (Initially Ukraine would make sense but you would hope before its paid off the Ukraine situation is sorted and everyone's back on their feet so it needs to be broader than just saying Ukraine) and being invested in development/grassroots of football
     
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  16. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    If the loans are wiped off then it would push them massively over all spending restrictions. Only similarity I can think of is the way Saracens used financial dealings over years, they ended up relegated due to it all, not sure if they had their titles taken off them
     

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