Quantcast
  1. Welcome to Bantam Talk

    Why not register for an account?

    Not only can you then get fully involved in the community but you also get fewer ads

  2. Premium Membership now Available


    Please see this thread for more details

    Dismiss Notice

Most liked posts in thread: Bury FC

  1. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
    Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    5,982
    Likes Received:
    15,003
    It's what happens when a prospective buyer doesn't want to pay what the seller expects and it becomes a matter of chicken.

    I seem to recall a club which several years ago was on the verge of being liquidated having passed a series of deadlines for prospective buyers to come forward with their offers. At the 11th hour (apparently 55 mins before the liquidation was due to take effect and after which there is no turning back and the fire sale would start) a buyer who had been instrumental in placing the club in administration came forward with a knock-down offer which was accepted by the liquidator. Imo it was the buyer's own version of chicken. And the club survived and the club's creditors were royally stuffed! Years later that same person was lauded as being the saviour of the club with that phase in the club's history long forgotten by some fans.
     
  2. Flying Duck

    Flying Duck Impact Sub
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    924
    It's embarrassing that two league clubs were on the precipice and now one has folded. Would be sick to my stomach if we we're Bury today. Feel for the fans, that's what it comes down to, your club just wiped out like that.

    Glad Rahic wasn't sole owner of us, imagine that catastrophe.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. Fordy117

    Fordy117 Just call me Mr Flip-Flop!
    Bubbles car wash

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    17,421
    Likes Received:
    14,448
    It still could be us and lots of other clubs:

    They're two sides to a fence:

    1) An owner that buys a club on the cheap for a return but unable to manage debt.

    2) An owner that loans a club money and then wants to pull out or want his money back.

    The true way to measure owners in my eyes is if they're looking to improve the club by adding assets, making improvements, taking the community forward etc

    If unable to do the above then they should sell up quickly. Parky was saying that Anderson should of sold Bolton when in the Championship and I agree. If you can't afford to run the club or take a hit in the pockets then you need to get out or seek investment ASAP.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #170 Fordy117, Aug 28, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  4. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter Euro 2020 P.L. 20/21 Top 30

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    38,292
    Likes Received:
    41,374
    I'm sure I won't be by myself in wishing Bury all the best for the coming season and watching out for the Bury results on a Saturday evening, good luck you guys, great little friendly club and the Fishpool Liberal Clubs not bad either, I've had some great days out at Gigg Lane in my many years of watching Bradford City, no football fan should go through what you guys went through although we have plenty of past experiences with administrations and wind ups, and not just on here.
     
    #261 Bronco, Jul 28, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
  5. Idlebantam

    Idlebantam Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 10

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    9,692
    Likes Received:
    21,301
    I think the Nevilles are life long supporters. I dont know how much Bury need to keep going, but you would like to think that the Neville family would be doing their best to keep them afloat.

    Feel for the fans today. I remember feeling sick to the pit of my stomach all day, when we nearly went under, and were saved at the very last hour.

    Hope they are saved. One of the oldest clubs in the world, FA Cup winners twice, it would be sad for the Football League family to lose them, in my opinion. Of course, most fans that follow their Premiership neighbours, wont give a toss, which is sad.

    I remember Avenue going under, not nice for their fans, or our City generally, at the time, despite no love lost between City and Avenue fans at the time
     
  6. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
    Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    5,982
    Likes Received:
    15,003
    In most senses, the clubs are largely stand alone, 'privately' owned businesses, largely governed by the Companies Acts and Charities Acts. But and this is the important but, they are also members of the EFL and therefore equally subject to the EFL's rules and regulations. Whilst most of those rules are reasonably straightforward and well-understood, the rules around ownership, financial prudency and overall governance are largely pathetic and not fit for purpose. The football authorities closed some of the loopholes on player ownership following the Tevez/Mascherano problems and then had another go after SISU pulled a fast one. But there are still some glaring issues around who can be a club owner and/or director and continued access to grounds which aren't in the ownership of clubs which is a growing issue and of course, the absence of strong overall governance. And we are as guilty as anybody else in that last category in the eyes of many.

    Of course, many people understand these problems and what needs doing about them. So why haven't they been resolved? The answer is in the Byzantine nature of the EFL's decision making on rule changes. And that is exacerbated by the 'turkeys not wanting to vote for Christmas' mentality. For example, the chairmen of all clubs have the final vote on rule changes via a very complex voting regime and if the chairmen collectively don't want to tighten up say the ownership criteria, it won't happen. That's what footie is up against ... the vested interests of the club chairmen.
     
  7. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    17,138
    Likes Received:
    40,670
    I think this sums it up well. Concerns were raised straight away when Day, the chairman at the time, started signing what were big names for league 1, including the likes James Vaughan. He’s either got big pockets or tue likely scenario that hes a con merchant were amongst other like for like comments. The fact his tenure and Steven Dales happened under the rules of EFL ownership prove it and they are not fit for purpose.
     
  8. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
    Admin Moderator Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant P.L. 18/19 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    5,746
    Likes Received:
    3,841
    TBH at this stage, it may be better for them to go bust and get reformed as a new entity. With no squad and a 12 point deduction the seasons a write-off as it is and you have to feel they will just get further and further in the hole. If they go bust and reform as a new entity at least they can start fresh and look to do it right this time.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. Overlord

    Overlord Breakthrough Prospect

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    14
    The EFL now need to stick with the deadline for both Bury and Bolton otherwise this is just silly. This is turning into a football brexit.
     
  10. Thelittlegerman

    Thelittlegerman Fringe Player

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    1,097
    43 out of 51 businesses Steve Dale has been associated with have been liquidated yet he was allowed to take ownership of Bury. Absolutely baffles me.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. WilsdenBantam

    WilsdenBantam Squad Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Euro 2020

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2018
    Messages:
    7,063
    Likes Received:
    15,102
    Such a shame but sadly coming for years, this hasn’t just jumped up out of nowhere. Finances in football have been shocking for a long time, this could easily have been us. Thankfully atm all we have to worry about is wanting the manager sacked after one league defeat, but any club is susceptible to this in the future it could be the first of many.

    Feel for the fans, and it’s a shame as it’s an away day I’ve always enjoyed and made the effort to attend. Probably not play them again unless some Phoenix club does a Wimbledon.

    Probably Bolton next unfortunately.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. Onside

    Onside Squad Player
    P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    9,192
    Likes Received:
    15,481
    It is such a sad day, and every club in the land should not only feel the pain of the fans of the two clubs, but seriously question the FA and the EFL who have allowed thieves and carpet baggers into our clubs?

    In my view we sold our football soul when we allowed ie FA to split the PL and the Football League. Then the PL has been allowed to do virtually anything it wants, and the football league sit under the table waiting for the crumbs! Now we have a whole army of ‘entitled’ PL owners and fans who have no interest whatsoever in the effects of them having everything and throwing the rest the crumbs and be grateful oh and by the way there are conditions to the crumbs we let you have.

    It is up to the fans and supporters of the football league to not only demand better governance of our league, but also transparency of the individual clubs accounts. It is alright ppl saying Bury Fans did nothing while the spending nilly willy on the credit card, went on, how are they suppose to call their owner out?

    This is the shock wave for all football fans in this country, I have no idea how many clubs are in a similar position, but there will be a few.

    My understanding of Bolton’s position regardless of the EFL decision to start the clock ticking, is the Administrator was saying there was no money left to operate from Wednesday, so unless somebody has put money in to keep it going while they find somebody to buy it, they could be liquidated today. My knowledge of this is sketchy, but the administrators have a duty to not allow any business to operate without funds.
     
  13. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
    Moderator P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter P.L. 20/21 Top 30

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    4,651
    Likes Received:
    7,796
    The supporters' group running Bury AFC in the North West Counties League and the other supporters' group, who have the ground (Gigg Lane) + the rights to the name Bury FC, have both voted to merge back together.

    They will now change the name of the team back to Bury FC and operate at Gigg Lane next season.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter P.L. 20/21 Top 10

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,788
    Likes Received:
    9,026
    Bar 1....!!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. Idlebantam

    Idlebantam Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 10

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    9,692
    Likes Received:
    21,301
    Its not looking good for the club, got to feel sorry for the fans
     
  16. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
    Moderator P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter P.L. 20/21 Top 30

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    4,651
    Likes Received:
    7,796
    I honestly believe the best way forward is for the EFL to try and bypass Steve Dale. They have no real legal way of getting rid of him as owner of the Club (unless he is willing to sell), so they should:
    1. Withdraw the 'Golden Share' from the Club and expel the Club from the EFL.
    2. Give other parties until, say, 31 March 2020 a chance to establish a replacement Bury Club (meeting the EFL's requirements), with the full backing of the supporters.
    3. If 2, above, is met, to readmit Bury to the EFL, in League Two, with effect from the 2020/21 season.
    That's the fair way and its a way that punishes the owner and not the supporters too much, whilst sending out a message to other rogue owners as well.

    Of course, the EFL won't do this, they'll just expel Bury and punish the supporters as well.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Onside, Tony Wilkinson and Wolfysmith like this.
  17. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
    Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    5,982
    Likes Received:
    15,003
    I suspect that the Bury saga has now almost run its course. Having just read the detail of the three charges on the assets and future income of the club, I don't see the club getting out of this mess unless there is a sugar daddy waiting in the wings. The likes of Dale and Day and McCarthy(?) can fight over the remains but I doubt there will be much left to keep the club running as a going concern. There is supposedly a line of credit for several millions but the identity of who is providing this has yet to be supplied to the IP .. and therefore it's vapourware at the mo. Maybe unbeknown to the rest of us, it's somebody on here with deep pockets who drives a big Merc?

    I only hope that the EFL now looks to itself and its own governance rules to understand what their inaction has done to create this situation. The rules as currently drafted are not just inadequate; they are unrelated to the modern world of business ownership and wouldn't stop another Bury from happening.

    Two things have to happen to the current rules imo. Firstly, the 'Owners and Directors' test has to be widened from its prinicpal focus on a limited number of criminal convictions to a much broader one based on business and/or sporting competences. Secondly, the wishy washy requirement for clubs having to have sufficient funding for the season is a nonsense. Nobody and certainly not the EFL have really said what this means and anybody with an ounce of sense would drive a coach and horses through the current set-up. It's pointless at the moment. It needs a major overhaul about what it means and stonger sanctions for those clubs who do not meet the criteria. And I include in that greater openness and more clarity on the ownership not just of the club but also of its key assets. It might result in further Bury's in the short term but for the longer term good of lower level football it simply has to be done. Whether the turkeys who currently own the clubs would vote for an early Christmas in changing the ownership rules is highly questionable! I'm not holding my breath and unfortunately don't imagine changes will introduced in the near future.
     
  18. Petrov

    Petrov Squad Player

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    7,520
    Likes Received:
    15,584
    I hope for the Bury supporters that this deal goes through but if Dale makes any sort of profit from this, it sets a dangerous precedent. How many other potential unscrupulous buyers will see this as an opportunity to acquire a struggling club for peanuts, not fulfill any financial obligations, push said club to the rink of extinction and then accept a bid at the 11th hour and walk away quids in. The EFL cannot allow him to get away with this.
     
  19. shoatsy

    shoatsy Regular Starter
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Euro 2020 P.L. 20/21 Top 30

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    2,737
    I think just 1 club would be relegated from league 2 .
    I really hope Bury survive though feel for their fans and enjoyed away trips there.
     
    Bronco, Botswana Bantam and Stoneski like this.
  20. Dubai bantam

    Dubai bantam Impact Sub
    P.L.22/23 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Messages:
    546
    Likes Received:
    1,058
    I feel for their fans, however more needs to be done to regulate the spending of all EFL clubs. Every man and his dog could see what was happening at Bury over the last 3 seasons with the amount they were spending in player wages alone, yet the EFL and the FA did nothing but sit by and watch. it will happen more and more, but to Championship clubs as they chase the Premier League Dream. This shall become the norm unless its regulated unfortunately.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice