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Brexit

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Park bantam, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    This is just the reality of minority government. It’s literally unprecedented to operate a functioning government on a majority of about -40 for a very, very good reason. As I said above though, I don’t think it’s an unreasonable line to take to see the enforcement of the law through, if that is their strategy. The country doesn’t suffer in the interim. If they’d said 2022, or even much into 2020 and that’d be a different matter entirely I think. I still don’t think it’s the right line for Labour to take though for a party that just desperately wants this Brexit malarkey to go away.

    I don’t personally see Labour actually following through and demanding a second referendum before a GE. But, again, could be wrong. I don’t think Labour really want to be thinking about Brexit at all, they want the process to be sorted and campaign on a ‘whatever way you voted, this economy really isn’t working, is it?’ strategy, which if you can get to that point, is the right one to take electorally. It’s just that I don’t think they can get to that point.
     
  2. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    I just don’t think that the EU will be flinging ultimatums around when there is the prospect of a General Election around the corner that could materially change the UK’s position. It just strikes me as rash decision making from an otherwise very patient and pragmatic body.

    I think there’s an outside possibility that we agree to an NI backstop withdrawal deal in the event we become...un-prerogued. But even then, MPs might just want to roll the dice on an election and call Boris Johnson’s bluff.
     
  3. Onside

    Onside Squad Player
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    I actually don’t like minority governments, it grinds everything to a halt, or at least to snails pace. I think the country is suffering, this continued delay is having an effect on businesses, preparing for a date, then it is off again, if this ones goes as well that will be three successive dates that they have had to prepare and nothing happens. They can’t make appropriate decisions about investment, and expansion not least staffing and where they will recruit from.

    The public at large have just about had enough no matter how they voted. Brexit fatigue and the constant chaos from Westminster is taking its toll on our ability to legislate about anything else. We are stuck in a quagmire, and the rabble want us to stay there, presumably until we just throw our hands up and say enough, and file it in the ‘too hard to do box’ At that point democracy is in serious trouble. Our tolerance of MP’s is still pretty low after the expenses scandal, it will pretty much non existent, after Brexit doesn’t happen.
     
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  4. BradfordBanter

    BradfordBanter Squad Player

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    I am suffering the effects of this being repeated for a third time with working in supply chain and speaking to my suppliers they are not impressed either.
     
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  5. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Talk is the Labour party are not backing a General Election until next summer, what a good idea for a party who cant wait to get into power and show us what they have to offer.

    You cant blame them when you see polls like this when the Tories and Boris are in chaos.
    poll.jpg
    poll1.jpg
     
  6. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    I agree with basically everything you say here. If you have a minority government in a First Past the Post system then realistically a new mandate needs seeking. It’s highly unlikely that a minority government, through FPTP, has enough support from the population to generate a sufficient mandate either since a majority can be easily won with as much as 70% of the country voting for somebody else.

    This is as much about the Fixed Terms Parliament Act as much as anything else. A significant piece of legislation put in place to cobble together the Con/Lib coalition in 2010. Before that you could seek a new mandate by just dissolving Parliament.

    As I’ve said, I strongly believe that we should move to a system of Proportional Representation. This would get us used to forming consensus and compromise, and to an extent extinguish a lot of the petty tribalism. I can guarantee that nobody had a view on whether it was correct to prorogue parliament until a month ago, and now it just happens to have fallen 100% down party lines. Everything becomes a proxy for something else.
     
  7. Onside

    Onside Squad Player
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    I understand your point of petty tribalism. However no system is without fault, and although compromise and consensus sounds like pink fluffy cloud stuff, it also has weakness, with minority parties having a considerable amount of power with only a small percentage of votes. You look at the SNP and LD atm who are clearly wielding the power in this opposition group. May tried to compromise with her Brexit deal, and look where we have ended up. That is my concern about PPR. Labour could opt out, but the MP’s in both major parties have seen a way to thwart the whole Brexit project despite the referendum. I expect there to be a move on Corbyn to throw him under a bus, as a closet remainer he is not As I say we will be lucky if we see a GE this year or whenever until they have jettisoned Brexit off into stratosphere. If the public vote a Tory government in highly likely, they could repeat the process, but by that time everyone will have had enough.
     
  8. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Where are people getting this idea that Labour don't want a GE until next year from? I've seen nothing to indicate that.
    Johnson now has a majority of -40 something. Whatever happens with Brexit he can't possibly limp on in government for long like this. He won't get a Queens Speech through Parliament. If Labour called a vote of No Confidence they couldn't cobble a functioning government together because the SNP and Lib Dems wouldn't back him.
    So a General Election before Christmas looks a racing certainty to me. If I'm missing something obvious please enlighten me.
     
  9. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    If the extension is only till January they need to vote down the government within days of return. The problem is the extension may not have been agreed by the vote so Labour could be forced to vote for the Queens speech to keep Parliament open
     
  10. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    More and more of the EU top bosses are making it clear that only a General Election announced before Oct 31st or something of that magnitude will make them consider an extension,
     
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  11. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    Been wondering...........

    Will my continental quilt still work after we come out of EU on 31st Oct ?

    Could be a game changer..
     
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  12. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    I think they speak with forked tongue, wouldn't that just put the toerag anti brexit MPs in their place, if it wasnt extended or forced Corbyn to except Johnson's offer of a General Election

    Tonight's interview with Cameron should make good viewing, stating the leavers lies of course neither he or Osbourne told lies.

    pinocchio.gif
     
  13. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Acting on behalf of Gina Miller at the supreme court is a Lord Pannick what a very apt name, listening to today's debate I can't see the supreme court over ruling the proroguing of Westminster.
    What is ironic is a guy who was obviously a knowledgeable man said the MP's in Westminster could have over ruled the prorogation before it came into being.
     
  14. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    I don't think that the Supreme Court could overrule the actual proroguing of Parliament, but they could rule that Boris acted above and beyond that permitted by the act; I think it really comes down to the length of the prorogation, 5 days is OK, 5 years is not. Where the line should be drawn, well that is a matter for the Supreme Court (or not, if they decide its above and beyond their remit).

    Obviously, not as knowledgeable as me though ;). MPs do not have the power to overrule the prorogation of Parliament but, of course, they can pass new legislation that could change that in the future.

    I think that this is an interesting sideshow, but I don't think it will have a major impact on Brexit. As I've said before, I think Brexit is in its end game. Boris is going all out for his 31 October deadline. Parliament will be back before then, so a lot will depend on what, if any, deal Boris has got to put forward to MPs.

    I think he's going for a slight variation on the Theresa May deal, which will probably lose him the support of the ERG and DUP, but may again enough Labour support to get it through. Otherwise, its a second referendum by means of a General Election.
     
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  15. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Cheers for your input.
    I believe Boris wants to get a deal and that is why he hoped "no deal" would be left on the table, my only worry is even if he brings a more acceptable deal back will the other parties back it, we already have the Lib/Dems saying their intention is to vote down Brexit and stay in the EU,
    I honestly cant see Corbyn voting for any new deal, it will be the same old crap from Corbyn : we can't vote for this because of Boris's red lines, I can see Labour staling any deal that will give the Tory party any credit for delivering Brexit..
     
  16. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    I'm not sure about Corbyn, but I could see a good number of Labour MPs backing a deal.
     
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  17. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Let's hope Boris can get some leeway with regards the back stop it's gone on long enough, no matter what the outcome Labour will feel the back lash in areas they would normally call Labour strong holds, and they only have themselves to blame.
     
  18. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    18603128-0-image-m-14_1568770386740.jpg Return to your constituencies and prepare to revoke the result of the EU referendum!'

    * Typical student politician....
     
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  19. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    Watched the Supreme court hearing this afternoon with the Scottish QC representing the decision the Scottish court gave, What a windbag, He had around two and half or 3 hours allocated and spent most of it waffling on and berating the judges about how UK law was based on Scottish law and how England relied on Scotland for progress and its laws even mentioning McBeth and the only thing the English had in its history of value was 1066 and 1966, The head of the court had to remind him he only had half an hour left if he was going to actually present a case to them, The Scots certainly seem to be in the premier league when it comes to be a long winded windbag,
     
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  20. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    11 more days for Boris to produce the documentation outlining his proposals for leaving the EU, strong words from Rinnie & Macron dare they pull the plug or will the real people who run the EU give them a slap and put them in their places.

    Antti Rinne said he and French President Emmanuel Macron agreed the UK needed to produce the proposals in writing by the end of September, adding if not,then "it's over" .
     

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