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Brexit

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Park bantam, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Skyebantam

    Skyebantam Impact Sub
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    Feel similar. I voted remain to stay in the EU and also help keep the integrity of our union by doing so. but I do feel we need to leave with some kind of deal to honour the referendum, even though more importantly for me, that will ultimately jeopardise the union which i see as more important than us being in the EU. I’d obviously rather have both though, the status quo.

    We’ll have our sovereignty back and can go cap in hand with it to the USA for the foreseeable. Interesting times lie ahead, lets hope the gamble is all worth it. The nation is split for a long time tbh, can’t see it being sorted anytime soon with so many potential unknowns and risks to the UK as it is now, lying ahead.
     
  2. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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  3. Onside

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    Looks like a GE is off the menu for the foreseeable according to Oliver Letwin. Now they are going to force a second referendum through Parliament. The are going to cobble together a complete dogs dinner of a ‘deal’ then you will be offered that and Remain. Then they will have an GE.
     
  4. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    All bets look off to me at the moment.

    Think we might look at Labour not going for an election as a strategical error before too long. But who knows? Every outcome at the moment seems very unlikely, but one of them has to happen.
     
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  5. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    Think the Lib Dems will make gains across the south of England with almost no pickup in the north. Maybe some hope in Scotland, but wouldn’t surprise me if they took all but every seat in Scotland like in 2015.

    Labour look like they’re caught directly under the ball at the moment. It’s whether they leak more seats to the Tories than the Lib Dems manage to pick up at the other end that’ll determine the outcome.
     
  6. Onside

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    I just can’t see any hope for Labour tbh. They are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Looking at the latest polling, they are extremely unpopular.
     
  7. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Nothing comes as a surprise anymore with British politicians disgraceful.

    Even the remainers cant honestly believe this is the way forward after the promises from all parties that this will be the only referendum.
     
    #1467 Bronco, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  8. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    I don’t think, in the end, they will try and force a referendum before an election. Remember Oliver Letwin is a Conservative politician.

    As an opposition party, don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. I think it’s perfectly democratic to put another referendum into a manifesto and get elected on the back of it.

    To be fair, though, I think the ‘running scared’ rhetoric is a bit wide of the mark. It’s an eminently reasonable position for them to hold to wait until the law has been enacted before jumping before agreeing to an election. I just wouldn’t have done it if it were me, since it effectively kick starts a three month long election campaign with effectively no rules on spending limits and broadcast rules.
     
  9. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    I wouldn’t put the house on it happening again, but they were looking at a much deeper hole prior to the 2017 election and the short campaign changed everything.

    There are a few moving parts to this that make it a very difficult one to call I think. The Brexit Party are a big one, and whether they stand against the Conservatives and split the vote is one of the biggest. If Boris Johnson goes and procures an extension, then it seems likely that might happen.
     
  10. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    I don't have a problem with putting it in their manifesto, but why bother the two major parties had it in their 2017 manifesto's and said they would abide by the outcome of the first referendum.
    We have got to get an extension yet, will the French veto as they are suggesting ?.
     
  11. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Maybe if that does happen and they get a coalition majority the opposition parties might reflect on not taking Theresa Mays offer.
     
  12. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    Well, manifestos can change from election to election. There’s a legitimate debate as to whether a manifesto still really applies through a minority government (Cameron won the 2015 election through a lid of promises he intended to bargain away and, almost by accident, won a majority). But I don’t think it’s possible really to argue that an election manifesto still applies if you lose the election and have to react to circumstances beyond your control.

    As to France’s potential veto - Macron is in the position where he has to play the tough man to the domestic audience, but when push comes to shove, I think the chances of a veto actually happening are very slim. Could be wrong, I guess, but I don’t see it.
     
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  13. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    If that happens, I think a lot of people will be cursing themselves.

    One thing I do find irksome is the group of Labour MPs that have been saying “we have to make Brexit happen” (Gareth Snell being a good example) and have voted against the withdrawal deal each time. That was the only route to victory for May, and even now has remained the only conceivable way we could have gone through with Brexit.
     
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  14. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Let's be honest although Labour is now being seen for what they are (as many of us thought at the time) a remain party, it would have been political suicide not to say the weren't prepared to honour the referendum vote.

    Yes I agree when push come to shove France will do as their told, having said that Macron has enough problems in France to take care of.
     
  15. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    There cannot be a second referendum until the first one has been addressed.........

    A second referendum if imposed should only have the options of deal (as whatever presented) or no deal

    A second referendum if imposed should only have any credence if turnout above 50%
     
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  16. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    Well...there absolutely can be.

    Shoulda and woulda are matters of partisan opinion really, which personally I’m trying to avoid. No Parliament can bind the hands of their successors as each is democratically elected, and that’s how it should be, really.

    Whether a referendum is the right tool for this kind of instrument is really the better question.
     
  17. Get Rid Of It

    Get Rid Of It Squad Player
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    I couldn't remember the last time there was a autumn/winter GE, so looked it up- oct 1974.
    I cannot imagine the turn out matching a spring/early summer GE, even though many now use postal votes(see bradford).

    50% in a winter referendum, on the back of the first one could be a tough ask as well.
     
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  18. Onside

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    I am guessing here, but my sense of what is happening is that the rabble have raided the power cabinets and they really like it. They are going to push through a 2nd referendum before any election, which will be more than likely next spring on the way things are going. Anything the government come up with anything on Brexit they will just vote it down. Maybe Labour will grow a pair and resist the rabble desire to break its promise to the people of this country.

    They dare not force a no confidence vote, or if they do they plan on forming their own rabble government where they will make all kinds of promises of a GE, but not just yet, or until after they have revoked Article 50.

    Our democracy as we know it is being kicked about like nothing I have seen. The last ref was 84% I think, if they have another ref, it will be a mockery and laughed at.
     
  19. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Squad Player

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    I think BREXIT has to happen or democracy is undermined. There was a vote, my side lost, it has to happen even though I don't like it. I think a referendum should happen with a variety of options for the Brexit. This would mean an agreement in principle from the EU presumably although that shouldn't be a problem as they agreed to May's terms. The politicians couldn't get it done so put it to the people. Let us know the pros and cons of each brexit option available on the ballot and we can make an informed decision. Whatever wins we go for it.
     
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  20. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    My prediction is that we will leave on the 31st of October, It will go like this, Boris and the EU will agree a deal based on the existing agreement with tweaks and a loosening of the backstop and it will be put to parliament for agreement, The EU will say that this is the final agreement and that no time extension will be granted on that basis and that the UK must decide between the deal offered or no deal with no other options and no extension now available, We will choose the deal and leave as Boris predicted on the 31st October
     
    #1480 trevor, Sep 13, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
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