Brexit

It's not blinkered. We have a massive interconectivity with Europe and the wider world, yes Brexit was partly to do with controlling the borders but that doesn't necessarily mean stopping everything crossing the border would be easy. The fact that even now when we have strict border controls but there are still people coming in and out shows how difficult it would be to truly cut ourselves off, it's not how out system has been built.

Nothing about this is the fault of Brexit and I would never say that everything the UK has done is good and EU does is bad.

 

Is this meant to be a joke?

If not then I cannot believe you find this amusing. A man of your age as well being as immature as a 16 year old.

The EU (despite what you think) is not evil, they are still our allies. The USA is still our ally. The only people who seek to benefit from a trade war between our allies are our enemies, Russia and China.

Simply... WOW

 

Clutching at straws there mate.

There is plenty of evidence of other land locked countries closing their borders much more effectively than we have. There are islands such as ours who have done it better. We ALL know the tories messed up the pandemic. Dont be a fool and try defend them.

 

You keep saying this, but I don't agree. The fact is, they bottled it and they still are.
Anyone entering the country should be quarantined in a hotel. Instead we have people flying in with new variants and wandering through the country unchecked because they didn't fill in their entry card properly. It's pathetic.

 

It's not clutching at straws and this isn't really a conversation for the brexit thread.

The islands that we are always compared to are Australia and New Zealand but even on a simple basis of distance to the nearest other country and transfer of people and goods in/out it's obviously completely different - even forgetting for the fact that we're connected to Europe by a tunnel.

And to whether the Tories have dealt with it terribly. Arguably yes, but that involves some hindsight in most situations. The problem from the Brexit/EU point of view is that none of the similar EU countries (with the possible exception of Germany) have dealt with it significantly better.

 

It's okay for you not to agree. The difference is that it's easier for some countries to do that that others.

That's okay then. So any delivery driver bringing food or medicine into the UK should quarantine for 14 days in a hotel?

We can't stress about new variants.

 

My mate and his Aussie lass had booked to go back to see her family in late march last year. Since then there has been a 14 day quarantine for new arrivals. My other mate who lives there posts endlessly on Insta, stories of her and loads all out partying, enjoying life. There are hardly any restrictions there because of the restrictions on the import of people.

Theres no way Australia can survive without importing goods and with that people who bring them. It seems that by at least blocking tourists and travellers that the restrictions helped.

This is relevant to brexit because many people in this thread have used the vaccine as a way to argue brexit works. It is correct to a degree but only in that it shows the weakness of the EU in times like these and why they should have reformed as mentioned earlier by RT. It shows how brexit has gives us more agility in certain situations.

But the torys are still to blame for the pandemic. Its a simple argument. And brexit isnt a glossy win win situation for us. The cynical plan of the hardliners came into view on wednesday with the budget. If you are poor now, get ready to be poor for a lot longer.

 

You've got 2 mates.. ?

 

More than likely 2 more than you

 

Do delivery drivers fly in from Brazil? I was taking about airline passengers.
There's an obvious difference between
a) a lorry driver crossing from Europe on a known journey to a known destination that can be easily tracked, who spends 90% of the time alone in a cab, and
b) an airline passenger sitting cheek by jowl with scores of other people who is then free to go anywhere if they choose to ignore the, largely unpoliced, quarantine arrangements.

Obviously we have to keep essential supplies coming in, with appropriate precautions. We don't have to allow people flying in from elsewhere to wander around potentially spreading new variants. They should be properly quarantined in designated places.

You may not want to stress about new variants but they have the potential to throw the recovery off track if they spread widely before revised vaccines are available to be rolled out, so they are a significant concern for most people. Not everyone is as laissez faire about it as you are. A recent poll I saw said only 12% believe the road map is proceeding too slowly.

You say that none of the other EU countries have dealt with it better - so why is our excess death rate significantly higher then?

 

Of course its amusing America have lifted tariffs on British goods now we are no longer members of "the club"

The "Great oaks from little acorns grow.......just the start" was with regards a trade deal with America small but a start.
You dont seem to learn, by all means debate the content is there any need for your opening comment, I think most having read you reply will know who the immature poster is.

 

Even during these dark days with regards Covid and the pandemic if seems allowing pre-ordered vaccine jabs means sweet f allowed to the likes of Italy and now France.

https://www-telegraph-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/05/france-could-join-italy-block-astrazeneca-exports-australia/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=16149609693447&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2021%2F03%2F05%2Ffrance-could-join-italy-block-astrazeneca-exports-australia%2F

 

And if the boot was on the other foot? If we'd got a contract with AstraZenica which they were failing to deliver on, would we be allowing them to export doses produced in this country across the world before they'd delivered to us?
I can imagine the howls of rage that would produce.

 

AstraZenica are a privately owned company who have taken pre-orders for their product if Australia had their orders in before Italy or France then no government should stop the delivery to their customers, I find it hard how anyone could defend that ?.

 

I'm not defending it. I'm just saying we'd have done the same if we'd got an order in and AstraZenica told us they couldn't meet it.
The Mail, Sun, Express and Telegraph would be going ballistic if we let them ship vaccines produced in this country overseas before we'd had our quota supplied, and you know it.

 

But we didn't, I would think the vaccine that is being made by AstraZenica in the UK is being shipped out to countries that pre-ordered it, and if the UK government tried to do the same as Italy & France are threatening then they should get the same comments aimed at them.
We got our orders in first and started our vaccination weeks before the EU countries being told by the likes France it was not safe for over 65s then had to back track on it, may other EU countries are saucing their own vaccines, so much for unity.

 

I know we didn't. But that's because AstraZenica met our order in full, so there was no problem with us releasing vaccines to be shipped abroad.
But AstraZenica are telling countries like Italy that they can't supply what they've ordered, but at the same time expecting them to release supplies produced there for export, ahead of the home population. There'd be an enormous hue and cry if that had happened here.

 

If AstraZenica is able to show when the pre-orders were taken then no those countries should not be in a position to stop the export of them

 

You seem to be supporting states effectively seizing the assets of private companies. Surely not?

 

Read my lips - as I clearly said above, I'm not defending it. It's wrong.

I'm simply saying that if the same situation occured here there would be a national outcry if we let vaccines leave the country while being told that the company couldn't meet our order in full. And, given our government's proven contempt for international law I'm bloody certain that they wouldn't have let it happen, regardless of the morality.