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Brexit

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Park bantam, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    The reason lots of the northern towns voted Brexit was immigration I think there is little doubt about that
     
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  2. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    And I said that could have been delt with by reducing immigration from outside the EU, because we could not stop EU citizens coming to the UK, so I don't get your point.
    A simple statement from Cameron saying "We'll reduce immigration from 100,000 to 10,000" maybe would have convinced voter........oh just a minute he did, as did the MP in charge at the time Mother Theresa.
     
  3. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    There are so many coming in now around Dover that we might as well pay for their ferry tickets...
     
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  4. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    I hope the powers that be are putting them into quarantine with full board and lodgings France are taking the p**s, Boris needs a word in Emmanuel Macron shell like, and some ask why we want out of this Union :laughing:.
     
  5. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    I accept all that and you might b right Cameron could have said that but it doesn’t change the fact most people were not thinking about financial or political matters when voting. They voted Brexit because of the issue of immigration
     
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  6. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    I could be right, no could be about it, that was one of his manifesto promises/commitments supported by Theresa May.

    Not sure I've disagreed I'm suggesting government could have controlled certain elements with regards immigration but they didnt.
    It would suggest to me both major policical parties took the electorate for mugs, the situation didnt arise overnight many people in Northern Citys had passed comments with regards immigration, Tony Blair certainly didnt take heed.
     
  7. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    If you accept a big reason for the vote was immigration there is little or no benefits for this country and especially in the short term a lot of pitfalls. I find it hard to accept that the party of business wants us to go down this line.
    Already the States are looking a more difficult trading partner with Bidon saying if he wins it won’t be a priority unlike Trump. And China has proven to be an untrustworthy partner. Australia and New Zealand are looking OK but in this time of climate change does foodstuffs and other goods travelling round the world seem like a good idea.
    With so many jobs being lost to this pandemic I hoped the goverment would try and reset the economy so that we went back to making things and exporting them rather than total reliance on the service sector but putting barriers to doing that to our nearest and best markets is no way of doing that.
     
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  8. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    We keep hearing that arguement, so during the last few years of negotiatoons you would have thought that situation is paramount to both parties, and an amicable agreement could have been found, yet you heard posters on here say the EU arent going to make it easy, so we are where we are.

    Can't see Biden winning even with the present pandemic most are not holding Trump responsible for lockdown etc, many were protesting in New York and blaming the mayor, which seems a strange situation for us Brits to understand.
    Irrelevant of what we think of Trump I'd suggest after this disaster for most economies Donald Trump would get the US economy going faster than any other leader.
     
  9. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    But the problem with getting a decent trade deal with the EU is that we aren't prepared to compromise on anything. We want to ignore the rules on movement of labour, maintaining common standards and being part of the European dispute resolution system (The European Court of Justice) and will stop paying our subs. Yet we want the EU to treat us as though we were still a club member, with all the membership benefits. How is that possible?
    The EU can't afford to give us easy access to their free trade market if we are going to lower standards, undercut them and ignore the disputes procedure. They'd be crazy to do that.
    But we are still sticking to all the red lines and giving nothing. It seems our government is prepared to throw us off a cliff and pray for a soft landing (against all indicators to the contrary).

    It's utter madness to risk further economic damage by No Deal on top of the inevitable pandemic recession. The only sensible thing is to delay to allow more time for a compromise deal when there is time to do it properly after the pandemic is over.

    It's not about trying to frustrate, or reverse Brexit - that's not going to happen. We are leaving. It's just sensible to give ourselves more time to minimise the economic damage when we're already in an unprecedented economic crisis that hasn't even begun to show its full extent yet.
     
  10. Offside

    Offside Impact Sub

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    EU is crisis 4 nations have blocked the 1.85 trillion euro fiscal rescue plan .
    Austria - Holland - Denmark - Sweden have rejected the deal . Falling out , unbelieveable in this eutopia .

    fiscal.jpg
     
  11. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    I'm struggling to understand the current logic of UK's future trading policy. Apparently we are about to apply for membership of the Trans Pacific Partnership which is a trading bloc involving many countries on the pacific rim but not China. TPP have their own rules on how free trade is conducted between its members, how problems are resolved through TPP's internal 'court' and what environmental standards are to be achieved. The US has already decided not to join TPP because TPP's environmental standards are too tight and the TPP trade dispute arrangements would overrule the US's own laws. That sounds familiar.

    If I understand this correctly, we'd prefer to join the TPP on the other side of the world with all of the transportation costs and climate change issues rather than have a FTA deal with our local trading bloc, the EU, which is on our doorstep. And that in part is because we want to loosen our existing environmental standards and don't want to be subject to the ECJ on trade issues. Our different attitude to the distinction, or rather lack of distinction between TPP and EU doesn't make sense to me. I hope somebody could explain this to me.
     
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  12. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Looks like things are moving "Brussels signals compromise possible in level playing cant get the link to the Finacial Times it wants me to pay a subscription.

    Brussels is also working towards an October deadline, which it says is the last possible month to permit ratification before the end of the year. Both sides are aiming for a tariff-free, quota-free trade deal.
     
    #2592 Bronco, Jun 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  13. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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  14. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    There is no doubt that long term a no deal Brexit would be best for the UK, The EU has huge financial problems looming with little chance of solving them, They had hoped we would be there to help pay the bills but without our cash they are in real trouble and will have to re-organise within 5 years or go bust, Once the devastation of no deal hits the big EU economies they will be doing deals that are fair and in our favour, If we hold our nerve the UK has a great future
     
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  15. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    If 'no deal' happens, then the UK has already indicated that imports from the EU will, largely, remain tariff free and there will be no UK enforced border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

    That would leave the EU/Ireland with a massive problem. Can anyone really see Ireland putting in a hard border and how will the EU handle this situation, should it arise?

    Note: The Good Friday agreement does not specifically rule out a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. However, all sides seem to accept that such a move would be going against the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement.
     
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  16. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    That's very true. But you've missed out one critical piece of information and that's the impact of having to join the WTO.

    If we leave without a FTA with the EU, we will revert the WTO rules covering the trade between ourselves and the EU under the jurisdiction of WTO as opposed to the ECJ. The WTO has its own rules and one is known as Most Favoured Nation (MFN) which requires all WTO members, ie us, to apply the same rules on imports across all members nations unless there is an FTA in place. T

    MFN means in simple terms that if the UK decides of its own volition to not charge import tax on items coming into the UK from the EU, then it also has to apply the same rules for the same categories of goods from other nations. If there isn't a hard border between RoI and NI so that import tariffs can't be levied or health checks can't be done, then other nations have to be treated in the same way. Similarly, if we choose to allow say Spanish tomatoes into the UK via Dover without import duties being applied then that has to be extended to say Moroccan tomatoes as well. It's not a simple matter of saying the UK won't have a hard border since there are major consequences of doing so. That's one the reasons why the PM had to backtrack on his previous promise to NI that there won't be a need for a hard border between NI and RoI. He sneaked his change through and his alternative is to effectively now have a hard border in the North Sea between NI and GB.

    To be clear, the WTO itself doesn't require a hard border to be erected; it will ironically become a consequence of wanting an open border between NI and RoI!
     
  17. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    Yes, the WTO's rules complicate matters even more.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45112872
     
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  18. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    It looks as though the penny has dropped at long last for the International Trade Secretary. The implications of the WTO's MFN rules on the NI/RoI border has suddenly became an issue for her and no amount of bluster from the PM or denial from Govie will change the responsibilities and rules of being in the WTO.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-liz-truss-letter-boris-johnson-brexit-border-plans-concerns-risks-2020-7?r=US&IR=T
     
  19. Get Rid Of It

    Get Rid Of It Squad Player
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    But,but ,but Boris promised an Oven Ready Deal.

    Not like him to lie to us.;)

    A hard brexit on WTO terms is looking fun and games.
     
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  20. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    I have always supported Brexit but have to admit the way this government is preparing for it drives me to despair,
     

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