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Brexit

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Park bantam, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Idlebantam

    Idlebantam Squad Player
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    I certainly dont have the deep pockets of the rich. But a Labour government with the likes of Momentum, Trade Unions and McDonnell running the country would quickly set us back to those very dark, bleak years of the Pre-Thatcher era. Might see me move and retire to Ireland if that happens.
     
  2. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    I think there’s some wilful ignorance of Labour’s Brexit policy going on. If you’re aware that the Lib Dem’s policy is to revoke, you should know that Labour’s policy is for a second referendum. They changed at about the same time.

    But it doesn’t fit the narrative of ‘Labour don’t know what they’re doing’. Yes their policy has at times been needlessly confusing, and yes they haven’t managed it correctly. But their policy is as clear as the Lib Dem’s is. To be perfectly honest, the Tories effectively abandoned their own deal, so if there is any uncertainty, I’d suggest that’s where you’d find it.
     
  3. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    The NHS could do with a shake up, It is one of the poorest performing in the modern world, It only gets the world class tag because the unions and government keep saying it, On value for money because it is free at the point of use it comes out well but on actual outcomes (people who get well after using ) it scores poorly,
    It is overburdened with non medical admin staff who from middle management upwards are on huge salaries, Only around two thirds of the budget is actually spent on healthcare and the rest on health campaigns and prevention,
     
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  4. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    How so? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just interested in why you think that.

    It’s indisputable that we’ve moved the dial way over to the free market end of economic policy. This economy is a very, very different place to the late 70s with its own problems to fix.
     
  5. Idlebantam

    Idlebantam Squad Player
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    Britain run my extreme left wing Marxists is a recipe for financial disaster and record levels of unemployment, not to mention high taxes for the hard working folk left in employment.

    No thanks
     
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  6. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    Well, that’s not really true. Look at the 2017 manifesto and there’s nothing even remotely extreme left wing about it. Left of centre, yes absolutely. But it’s certainly not extremist (please feel free to argue this point though).

    Taxes under Labour will not increase for the overwhelming majority of people, check here http://calculate.forlabour.com/ - there will be tax increases for some of the most well off.

    It’s attitudes like this though that always put Labour on an uphill slope on the hard difficulty setting. The Conservative Brexit deal has just been uncovered as costing us £70bn. Imagine if that was the Labour Party and the accusations of fiscal irresponsibility that would surely follow.
     
  7. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Why do you say the above, if the cost is correct (I'm not questioning it) the opposition parties have to share the responsibility of that cost.
     
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  8. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    Anyone who remembers the nationalised industries will know that we paid high prices and had to put up with dreadful service with no competition and no other supplier,
     
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  9. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    I’m not immediately questioning that. The responsibility should be borne by those that ratify it, in my opinion.

    But the point is that if it was Labour, you can bet that it would be Labour that took a kicking. Whereas at present it’s being treated as a secondary news item to ‘Boris Johnson believes an election will be difficult’.
     
  10. Idlebantam

    Idlebantam Squad Player
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    You are being naive if you think taxes will not increase under a Left wing Labour government

    All the major service industries will be nationalised, which is never a good thing in my opinion. I want to be able to have competition in the sectors

    I know many lifelong Labour voters who cannot bring themselves to vote for Labour under the present set up
     
  11. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    But we’re now a service led economy. The equation there changes and the supply chains are less dependent on external factors.

    I’m trying to avoid a debate on public/private ownership as I appreciate there’s a degree of personal opinion involved and there’s no single right answer. Nationalising everything is indubitably extreme left wing, but that’s no more true than saying the Tories may privatise the police force.
     
  12. Dionysus

    Dionysus Fringe Player

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    I never said there wouldn’t be tax increases. I literally said that there would be. They’re outlined in the link I posted.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not trying to persuade anyone to vote one way or another. Your vote is your vote and I agree that there has been a shift away from Labour by otherwise lifelong Labour supporters. I’m just speaking about the facts of the matter. There’s no evidence at all that all major industries will be nationalised. Some, yes, but as I say above, no more evidence than to say that the Tories will privatise all national industries. Of course they won’t.

    There’s a philosophical bias towards private enterprise, but it doesn’t carry that either side will operate that to its furthest logical extremity.
     
  13. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Horrible thought but it just might be Labour after the forth coming General Election, but you can bet your bottom dollar any renegotiated deal between the EU & Labour will be as near as possible to what we have now, that's not Boris's deal but staying as it was.
     
    #2153 Bronco, Oct 30, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  14. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    Don't have nightmares....!!
     
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  15. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    At least we had some industries then. Tory economics have destroyed most of our manufacturing industries.

    But no one is talking about a return to those days.
    Nationalising railways and utilities makes perfect sense. The cost of train travel and utilities is now sky high compared to pre-privatisation, and no one could argue that the service is better.
    Most of Labour's economic policies are middle of the road social democratic ideas that would seem totally uncontroversial in most of Europe and would have been common to both major parties before Thatcher wrenched our politics dramatically to the right.
     
  16. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    Railways I would agree it was a poor privatisation and in my opinion was better than now, However the othe facilities are much better now, I remember getting my first phone and waiting 4 months and then having a party line having to share the line with a stranger, Went for a gas fire and you had a choice of 2 and only they could install that took weeks in some cases, Electric the same and god forbid you needed a new supply at a change of property, Water as with railways I can see no benefit only big profits for the operators and am not adverse to some nationalisation but not part of a Labour dogma of public good, private bad
     
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  17. Clity

    Clity Fringe Player

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    That has nothing to do with the subject. Watch this clip.

    https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/558817674923375/

    or read this...

    https://www.channel4.com/press/news/trumps-plan-nhs-channel-4-dispatches

    It seems to me like you wont accept any criticism of brexit and what it might entail. It cant be all good, im just suggesting you open your eyes to what america has in store. They dont even look after their own people socially why would they care about us?
     
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  18. Clity

    Clity Fringe Player

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    extreme left wing marxists - that does make me laugh. I wont vote labour but the drama people throw in when they hear someone wants to practice socialism is laughable. If you look up the definition of marxism it would be nice to see where a revisionist party like the labour party bound by the conventions of the fabian society promote a marxist revolution.

    heehee

    Its quite ironic that being a member of the eu forbids a country to turn marxist. The single market being anathema to the very definition.
     
  19. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Squad Player

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    Looking forward to all the BREXITEERS rioting tomorrow. Leave means leave etc.
     
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  20. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    Sorry to disappoint you, but we are above all that...............grow up....
     
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