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Balanced budget at higher level

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Seasideman, May 10, 2018.

  1. Seasideman

    Seasideman Breakthrough Prospect

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    Are there any clubs who adopt the "balanced budget approach" in the leagues above us?
     
  2. JonButterfield

    Euro24 PL Entrant P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    Last time I know of a team in the Championship with a positive bank balance was when Burnley were relegated from the Prem.

    Of course that was a result of their Premier League earnings.

    There were a couple with sensible debts, and several with ludicrous debts.
     
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  3. Seasideman

    Seasideman Breakthrough Prospect

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    Thanks for that. It seems to suggest that even if we are promoted under this "balanced budget" approach, we won't be able to keep it up after promotion?
     
  4. JonButterfield

    Euro24 PL Entrant P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    It does seem like getting into the Championship and then maintaining Championship status is a bad business plan.

    The only way to make money is to bypass the Championship, because the Premiership is extremely lucrative.

    Of course that's a result of these clubs overspending wildly in a bid to get to the promised land.
     
  5. How

    How Knows Football
    P.L. 18/19 Winner Euro 2020

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    Surely our income increases if we get promoted?

    Ticket prices would no doubt increase slightly and that would be justified. Tv money increases and gate receipts increase with higher away attendances.
     
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  6. Seasideman

    Seasideman Breakthrough Prospect

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    Thank you. I started the thread out of curiosity which you have satisfied.
     
  7. Dennis

    Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    Yes ... and so do our costs but even more so.

    Typical mid table playing budget in Div 1 - £2m-3m. Typical mid table playing budget in Championship £15m-18m


    Edit - I should have added

    Typical playing budget for Championship club with PL expectations £25m-£40m!
     
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    #7 Dennis, May 10, 2018
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
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  8. Sergio Pinto III

    P.L.24/25 Entrant

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    There is absolutely no way on gods green earth that Sheffield United or Millwall required those playing budgets. I very much doubt Brentford are anywhere near that either.
     
  9. Dennis

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    I don't have Sheff U's or Millwall's since they haven't published their accounts since they were in the Championship. I do however have Brentford's for 2015/16 and it was just over £18mill.
     
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  10. Sergio Pinto III

    P.L.24/25 Entrant

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    Millwall can't be anywhere near. They didn't spend a bean last summer, mainly stuck with the same squad from L1 and only get 13,000 at homes.

    Brentford fair enough but they sold £23m worth of players that financial year. Gray, Tarkowski, Grigg and others.
     
  11. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter

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    So what’s the answer then give up. Let’s do our best to get there and worry about it then
     
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  12. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Millwall spent a comparative fortune in wages in League One, as did Sheffield United
     
  13. Dennis

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    I don't know about Millwall but having just looked at Sheffield U's accounts for 2016/17, they spent nearly £7m on their first team wages and loan fees! This excludes their U23 Development squad. Interestingly, their Chairman also said in the forward to the accounts that he expects wages to be significantly higher when in the Championship.
     
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  14. Mike Hunt

    Mike Hunt Impact Sub

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    Millwall spent £8.5m or so in their promotion season, including non playing staff. Their 13000 season ticket holders pay a lot more than we do and being in that there London probably get a bit more in sponsorship each year.
     
  15. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    I think Millwall's was £9.4m in their last year in league one although that included the promotion bonuses. It was £8m the year before without that additional cost.

    How many times do you think we've discussed and pointed out the costs involved with being a Championship club but it seems people still think you can turn up there with a jar of sweeties, expect to turn a profit and compete?
     
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  16. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Yep. And they still made a £4.8m loss despite all that and a run to the quarter finals in the FA cup.
     
  17. Dennis

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    I agree. I recall Mark Lawn's comment about he and JR not being able to fund a successful Championship club because of the level of wages in that league. Neither of them had the money the club financially. He based this on a comment from Dean Hoyle who said he had subsidised Town for 5 years at about £8mill each year and that was prior to the season when they were promoted. I'd be confident that the new Sky and EFL TV contracts will have eased the burden somewhat but even Rupp has admitted that additional investment would be required in the Championship for the club to get its hands on some of the riches of the PL. And we're not even there yet!
     
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  18. Sergio Pinto III

    P.L.24/25 Entrant

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    It is fairly obvious that you need a decent budget to be able to survive in the Championship but figures of £15-£18m being mid-table will see a lot of Championship clubs running at losses. Some may see a small playing budget as penny pinching but others will see it as sensible.

    Turnover 2016/2017 season - 10 clubs turnover wasn't more than the average budget.

    Birmingham - £14.7m
    Brentford - £10.6m
    Bristol City - £14.2m
    Charlton - £12.1m
    Huddersfield - £11.3m
    Ipswich - £16.1m
    Nottingham Forest - £17.1m
    MK Dons - £11.7m
    Preston - £10.6m
    Rotherham - £13.3m
     
  19. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    How many of those ran at a loss?

    Isn't that the point? Teams spend more than their turnover in that league.
     
  20. Dennis

    Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    First point is that three of those clubs were certainly not mid table clubs, did not have mid table budgets and were indeed relegated that season.

    The second point is however the more relevant one and is the one you continue to ignore. In 2016/17 all bar 2 (both of them relegated that season!) of the Championship clubs ran at a loss and had their losses under-written by their owners. That's how most Championship clubs survive. Have a read of what I posted earlier about Dean Hoyle's comment to ML.
     
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