Quantcast
  1. Welcome to Bantam Talk

    Why not register for an account?

    Not only can you then get fully involved in the community but you also get fewer ads

  2. Premium Membership now Available


    Please see this thread for more details

    Dismiss Notice

Adam Chicksen vs Conor Wood: Statistics

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by JonButterfield, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    14,476
    Likes Received:
    24,254
    Having just read a pretty disgraceful post on Facebook that I won't be repeating here, I was intrigued about the calls for Wood to start at left back ahead of Chicksen that seems to have been going on for quite some time. Apparently, Chicksen is a liability that continually costs us games, whereas Wood is a promising young player who is unfairly left out of the team, simply needs a chance, and should really be playing at his natural left back position rather than at left midfield.

    So, here's the research of the statistics from the last ten games (all appearances, all competitions), as well as the statistics for the entire season (all appearances, all competitions).

    Chicksen's Results:

    Last Ten Games:

    5 clean sheets
    5 wins, 3 draws, 2 defeats (Sunderland & Barnsley)
    Goals for: 24
    Goals against: 14

    Whole Season (24 games):

    8 clean sheets
    8 wins, 7 draws, 9 defeats
    Goals for: 36
    Goals against: 34

    Conor Wood's Results:

    Last Ten Games:
    2 clean sheets
    2 wins, 4 draws, 4 defeats
    Goals for: 11
    Goals Against: 19

    Whole Season (22 games)

    4 clean sheets
    3 wins, 6 draws, 13 defeats
    Goals for: 21
    Goals against: 44

    Bradford City Results:

    Last Ten Games:

    5 clean sheets
    5 wins, 2 draws, 3 defeats

    Whole Season (39 games):

    9 clean sheets
    9 wins, 11 draws, 19 defeats

    Connor Wood has been involved in significantly more defeats in fewer appearances, we've conceded FAR more goals (both in the last ten appearances and over the course of the season as a whole), we score almost twice as many goals when Chicksen appears as when Wood appears, and we've won MORE than twice as many games when Chicksen has appeared as when Wood appears. We've also kept MORE THAN TWICE as many clean sheets with Chicksen playing as opposed to Wood playing.

    So...

    Is the Chicksen-bashing actually fair?
     
  2. Here's Johnny

    Here's Johnny Fringe Player

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    243
    Coming up with diligent research won't wash on here!
     
  3. Tolly856

    Tolly856 Squad Player

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    2,393
    Likes Received:
    4,547
    Just to demonstrate how pointless the above is, Park Bantam used to use a similar set of stats which showed how we were significantly better off starting with Kai Bruenker, and that as a result, Kai Bruenker was clearly a decent player who was key to our success.
     
  4. River_City_Bantam

    River_City_Bantam Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 10

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    2,340
    I don't think the approach is pointless, but I would say it is problematic. There are just too many variables: the rest of the team changes, the opponents change, the referees change, even the weather... Because of all that, I think it's difficult to say differences in results/performances are due mainly to which LB was playing. (Of course, if you can point to mistakes that led directly to goals against, and balance that out with plays that led directly to goals for, for each player, it might help the approach.) And now it seems that we may have found a successful formation in which both play a part.

    Some of the criticism does seem over-the-top, however. Chicksen's not Meredith, which may be a factor; injuries and sendings-off/suspensions may be another; add in some weak performances and he becomes an easy target.

    RCB
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. Onside

    Onside Squad Player
    P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    8,981
    Likes Received:
    15,054
    I think there is far too much player bashing in general. Chicksen has errors in his game, as does Wood, but they are typical of league 1 players. Meredith was very good which is why he is not playing in league 1.
     
  6. bantam2708

    bantam2708 Squad Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Euro 2020 P.L. 20/21 Winner

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    6,578
    Likes Received:
    13,724
    Show me all the pro Chicksen stats you want, it won't change the fact he is god awful.
     
    vanginger likes this.
  7. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    11,073
    Likes Received:
    28,432
    It’s not ‘Chicksen bashing’. He’s a poor player. He’s not alone and he isn’t the only one to have come in for criticism.

    We’ve been in the bottom 4 all season. What’s to be expected? Glowing praise all round?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. Smartmart

    Smartmart Impact Sub

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    To be honest both are poor defensively. We’ve suffered from a stream of opposition crosses raining into our box all season. Chicksen rarely if ever blocks the cross at source. One of the primary basic needs for a full back. He is lightweight and often bullied and targeted by opposition teams who switch play to his wing. They know.
    Wood has been a disappointment too. He isn’t a solid left back either. Both played together at Luton and we were decimated there. My only hope is Wood has time to grow and improve. On the ball he looks ok. I’m looking forward to seeing Woods. Everything I’ve heard is he is a tenacious defender. It’s easy for players to be rated higher when you’ve not seen them play vs those you have in the same way that some players out of a struggling team appear better.
    The simple facts are on this season to date I wouldn’t keep either wood or chicksen. We need better in order to progress. Hopkin will fix that given time.
     
  9. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    7,655
    Get a Girlfriend,
     
  10. How

    How Knows Football
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L. 18/19 Winner Euro 2020

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    10,623
    Woods is better than both of them. Close thread
     
    Old city man likes this.
  11. abbomf

    abbomf Emergency Backup

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,225
    Likes Received:
    1,623
    Sorry Jon, but I think the stats mean zippo, there are far too many variables to consider. Team mates, team mates form, weather, oposition, opposition form, tactics etc etc.

    It is clear though without any need for stats, that as ever, some have latched onto a player to bash. Probably the same ones who lauded his arrival as at last, a player who could deliver a cross, good riddance to wanky Meredith.......
     
    BoingBoing and JonButterfield like this.
  12. Bantam42

    Bantam42 Future Prospect

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2018
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    104
    Chicksen’s a decent League One player. Lacks the usual physicality but I don’t get the hate. And the stats tell their own story.
     
    shoatsy, JonButterfield and Rocket like this.
  13. TallinnBantam

    TallinnBantam Regular Starter
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    6,007
    Likes Received:
    8,022
    The problem with Chicksen is that he's out of his depth a bit. He's really suited to bottom of the table, league one football.

    Oh. Wait.
     
  14. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter Euro2020 Winner Euro 2020 P.L. 20/21 3rd Place

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2018
    Messages:
    7,035
    Likes Received:
    10,879
    Seriously? You're citing Luton away to prove anything?

    Luton are flying. Check the table. They've scored goals for fun at home all season against much better teams than us.

    Injuries and suspensions meant that Chicksen played centre back that game, with Woods at LB and Mellor, another fullback, at right CB. So, with a short notice makeshift defence - square pegs in round holes against the runaway top scorers, in a game we'd almost certainly have lost with our regular defence - you're using that game as evidence that Chicksen and Wood are bab?
    Unbelievable Jeff!

    There are valid arguments that we could do with better than Chicksen and that Wood isn't yet defensively reliable enough in a team scrapping relegation. But the Luton game is certainly not part of that argument.
     
    BoingBoing and Allotment Bantam like this.
  15. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    14,476
    Likes Received:
    24,254
    Thanks for the good responses. It's true that statistics can mean little, and there is a reason Hopkin signed Woods - but I think it's a step too far for anyone to claim Wood has to start at left back ahead og Chicksen.

    I'm terms of both performances and ALL metric data, there really isn't a case for Wood at all. I actually expecter these stats to be fairly equal, and to make the case it wouldn't make any difference at all.
    But as Bielsa showed with the Derby Spygate deal, stats are bread and butter, and these are as basic as they come.

    No doubt Hopkin knows every stay going, so people questioning his choice without a single shred of evidence really is mindless.

    I would be interested in a fact-based counter argument, but I've evidenced a couple of games-worth before where really Wood either gets ripped apart, or, more often, isn't anywhere near his own man. I'd be surprised if someone broke down all the goals and found Chicksen was responsible for conceding more than Wood in percentage terms.

    It seems hugely unlikely.
     
    Ollylondonbantam and Stoneski like this.
  16. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    11,073
    Likes Received:
    28,432
    It’s amazing. We have loads of decent league one players but we’ve been in the bottom four all season....

    He’s not decent. He’s crap. He’s not alone - but he’s crap.​
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    14,476
    Likes Received:
    24,254
    If you accept it took us 20 games to recover from the Rahic-led disaster that was preseason and the start of the season, actually, we don't look like a bottom four side at all - and yes, our form since then is decent.
     
    banbrotam likes this.
  18. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    11,073
    Likes Received:
    28,432
    Time will tell. The Southend and Barnsley games were 100% bottom 4 performances.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    JonButterfield likes this.
  19. Ginger Mullet

    Ginger Mullet Emergency Backup

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    148
    It hasn’t helped the lad when he has come in to replace Meredith, who was arguably one of the best LB’s in league one while playing for us. Big shoes to fill, which unfortunately he hasn’t been able to step into. The fans are on his back because we were so used to being solid down that side, which we aren’t now, and his defunding ability is being questioned because he isn’t good enough.
     
  20. Edinmiarse

    Edinmiarse Fringe Player

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    762
    Likes Received:
    1,097
    If you take the last 2 months form and project that from the start of the season to yesterdays game we would be in a play off spot. Even if you take the form of the last 3 months and do the same we would be in 8 th position!
    It's therefore pretty clear that our form for the first few months was abysmal. Just take the months of September and October. We played 11 games, a possible max. points total of 33. We managed just 4 points out of those 11 games. Contrast that with our last 11 games, we've secured 18 points. Play off form.
    So why are we still in the bottom 4 ? Well it's obviously a combination of atrocious early season form and teams near the bottom of the league also improving - picking up points.
     
    #20 Edinmiarse, Feb 3, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice