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BOYCOTT STARTS TOMORROW

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Lancaster Bantam, Feb 7, 2022.

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  1. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    The very few halves of football this season where we have played decent football the fans have been very appreciative of that with their support. But it's perfectly clear Adams is primarily a defensive minded manager and when the results don't go your way fans pick up on the negative tactics.
    As a bit of a benchmark I watched what Exeter did on Saturday and if I could see us develop into a team that tried to play football like that I'd back Adams. But under his leadership I'm not sure we'd ever be a team that trys to play football and its a reason I'd be reticent to keep him on after the summer, although I'd expect he will be due to financial reasons.
     
    vladimir likes this.
  2. johndewhirst

    johndewhirst Emergency Backup

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    There has been a lot of noise alleging that £300k is being paid annually from BCAFC to Stefan Rupp via his Germany company. I have recently been asked about this elsewhere but repeat what I posted previously on this forum that there is no substance to the allegation.

    The suggestion that he is paid an annual management charge whether once a year or every month doesn't make sense. For a start BCAFC could not afford to pay £0.3m pa to SR on top of existing commitments. And given that SR has underwritten the solvency of the club he would have had to reinject the same amount anyway to make good any shortfall. Furthermore he has no incentive or financial need for such an arrangement.

    I have rechecked my papers and confirm that when I looked at the accounts 18 months ago that there was no evidence of this. There were claims about him taking money out of the club before I published my findings and I know that some people were not prepared to accept otherwise. Arguably the conspiracy theory suited their agenda and they didn't want facts to get in their way.

    As I highlighted previously there was a bridging loan of £0.2m that was repaid in July, 2020. The circumstances of this were that the club had a cash shortfall to pay the wages at the end of June, 2020 arising from late receipt of the McBurnie monies. SR advanced £0.2m to pay the wages and he was repaid four weeks later. By its nature this was a temporary, one-off arrangement and did not constitute an annual or regular fee payment. (The only reason it has been given attention is that it occurred either side of the financial year end for reporting purposes.)

    If anyone has evidence to the contrary I would suggest that they present it to substantiate the claim about the £300k pa payments. I am intrigued to understand what I have missed and/or what I stand to gain from making a misleading statement. For the record my findings from Oct-20: https://widthofapost.com/2020/10/14/assessing-the-finances-of-bradford-city/
     
    Bantam75, Bronco, Bigrod and 3 others like this.
  3. ahar964

    ahar964 Squad Player
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    Over to you @Dennis@Dennis ......
    Just to add, I'm not taking any sides in this, just intrigued to know
     
    #483 ahar964, Feb 24, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2022
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  4. Silverbantam

    Silverbantam Squad Player
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    Are you still going ahead with your boycott on Saturday?
     
    Sergio Pinto III and shoatsy like this.
  5. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Don't hold your breath.
     
    Sergio Pinto III likes this.
  6. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    Almost missed this with all that’s going on Rupp is not takin money out of the club
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Kevin1954 and Bronco like this.
  7. 13eta

    13eta Fringe Player
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    Jon for further clarity I know you looked at the club’s books but did you/were you able to look at the ER Sports Group?
     
    ahar964 likes this.
  8. wetherbywhaler

    wetherbywhaler Impact Sub

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    Dennis is a bit quiet! As I recall he didn’t say much when John wrote about finances in WOAP but like all keyboard warriors he left it a while then brought it up again thinking we’d forgotten but clearly John D didn’t, Well done and well put to bed.
     
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  9. Tight1-0Victory

    Tight1-0Victory Fringe Player

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    Why you calling people keyboard warriors lol aren't you the guy that said we'd make the play offs if only we had enough faith lol

    That's the definition of keyboard warrior making daft statements you can't back up sorry mate
     
    ModernBantam likes this.
  10. wetherbywhaler

    wetherbywhaler Impact Sub

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    Yes I was that man and I made a mistake as it currently seems. I hold my hands up. Fair cop.
     
    bantamlad92 and HUDDERSSBANTAM like this.
  11. Tight1-0Victory

    Tight1-0Victory Fringe Player

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    Fair play but don't agree that there's any keyboard warriors here everyone just seems to want the club to do better and when we're 15th in League Two I think that's fair enough we absolutely should be doing better and it's a bit of a disgrace we are where we are
     
  12. johndewhirst

    johndewhirst Emergency Backup

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    I approached Julian Rhodes in March, 2020 to review the accounts which repeated an exercise I undertook prior to the club's administration in 2003. There were delays due to lockdown but I eventually completed the work during the summer of 2020 with the full assistance of the club's auditors.

    I looked at the BCAFC accounts, not those of Stefan Rupp's investment companies and was given access to management accounts as well as trial balance detail. From a diligence perspective I was satisfied that the records were complete with reconciliations of all key accounts (ie bank account and ledgers). Hence I am confident that what I saw embraced all transactions between the club and external parties including ER Sports. (Given the double entry of the accounting I didn't need to see the ER Sports accounts to confirm payments to/from BCAFC.)

    When Edin Rahic was at BCAFC, as a German national he was remunerated via ER Sports. In FY19 payments of £0.3m were made from BCAFC to ER Sports which covered Edin's salary in addition to associated fees and taxes. Those costs were included within the club's operating costs. No payments have been made to ER Sports since Rahic left the club in Dec-18 and there were no outstanding liabilities in the BCAFC accounts relating to ER Sports.

    To recap, the only funds transferred to Stefan Rupp from BCAFC have been in respective of the bridging loan repayment in 2020. As outlined in the WOAP feature, no payments have been made in respect of debt capital or interest. Neither has interest been charged to the accounts in relation to the loan balance of Stefan Rupp.

    GK / 'Mike Hunt' is openly talking on this forum about a £25k monthly management charge to Stefan Rupp / ER Sports (refer 12-Dec-21) but he doesn't say what evidence he has to substantiate this. For a start, it's definitely not in the BCAFC accounts.

    The comment was made by 'Dennis' (again on this forum on 12-Dec-21) that because the club only had £120k in its bank account at the financial year end on 30-Jun-20 - despite having made a material profit from the sale of McBurnie during FY20 - that money must have been paid to Stefan Rupp. To be frank, the naivety if not stupidity of the suggestion beggars belief. As I have said, the bridging loan had been necessary at the end of Jun-20 precisely because the McBurnie monies had not yet been received. Whilst profit was indeed recognised in FY20, the cash receipt came after the year-end, that is to say during FY21. A first year trainee accountant learns that the flow of cash does not always match the flow of profit. It's hardly forensic stuff but to make that sort of accusation in a public forum is reckless and any qualified accountant knows that you don't give an opinion about financial statements that is based on supposition. In the circumstances a lawyer would say likewise.

    Both 'Dennis' and Graeme / 'Mike' have expressed doubts on this forum about the accuracy of what I reported on WOAP and implied that I have been deliberately economical in what I disclosed - to quote, 'not wanting to give everything away'. What genuinely surprises me is that if they doubted my integrity or the validity of my analysis why they never made contact as I'd have been more than happy to meet and discuss. It's not as if I hide behind an alias and am invisible. I appreciate that that would have meant them surrendering their anonymity but if individuals are going to make damaging insinuations about the financial affairs of the club and its owner they should have the courage of their convictions and not hide in the shadows.

    The theatre of making unsubstantiated claims and spreading wild rumours online is not in the best interests of the football club that we all support. That aside, I would have thought that any experienced accountant or company director would recognise that neither is it consistent with what could be described as reasonable or responsible behaviour. 'Dennis' will be aware that a professional body such as the ICAEW would take a dim view if a complaint was made and I am sure that 'Mike' would be mindful of similar potential embarrassment.

    We all have expectations about how the club is managed and the financial investment of its owner. Criticism of Stefan Rupp is one thing but to encourage unfounded rumours that he has been taking £0.3m from the club each year is unnecessary as well as libellous. This has all gone too far and needs reining in. Accordingly I would hope that a line can be drawn.
     
  13. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    Thanks JD.
     
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  14. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    I am ,I’m only having 4 bottles watching , as I said I would, instead of the normal 5. That’s my boycott sorted.

    Pass the TV buttons darling.
     
  15. bantamdave41

    bantamdave41 Regular Starter
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    I'm satisfied the supposed 300k version of events' is closed. Thank you.
     
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  16. Mike Hunt

    Mike Hunt Impact Sub

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    A line can indeed be drawn John, thank you for the explanations. I don’t recall casting aspersions on your integrity, but, if I did, then I sincerely apologise.

    As to the comment of 12th December where I refer to an apparent payment, my belief being based on the earlier comments by Dennis on the €300k, I accept that that was erroneous and if I could I would happily delete the comment. If a moderator can do that I would be grateful.

    Thank you John.
     
  17. Sergio Pinto III

    Sergio Pinto III Squad Player

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    Yeh come on Dennis, lets hear it fella....youve banned folk for far less than this ridicilous, insulting claim.
     
    #497 Sergio Pinto III, Feb 24, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2022
  18. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    I won't go over all of the WOAP article other than to repeat what you said to me when I asked a question about it at the time. Firstly you confirmed that information you were provided access to were the management accounts of the club rather than the financial accounts and that they related to Bradford City Football Club Ltd and didn't including the accounts of the club's holding company BC Bantams Ltd. As I'm sure you iunderstand, the routine management accounts don't always tell the complete story. For example they are unlikely to include all of the mportant so-called Related Transactions between the club and either of its two layers of ownership - BC Bantams Ltd and ER Sportsgroup Gmbh. Those transactions would of course be included in the full Annual accounts if they were to be published but they are only published in abbreviated form and thus missing from publicly available information.

    Without knowing all of the details, I suspect that one place to start looking for the missing transactions is to ask for access to the the full financial accounts for both companies rather than simply rely the management accounts relating to one of them.

    About 3 years ago, another poster and myself looked at the accounts from the opposite end of the ownership hierarchy. We concentrated on the accounts of ER Sportsgroup Gmbh trying to understand the ownership structure and source of funding for the purchase of the club and how Rahic leaving the club might impact. Instead we identified unexplained revenues of circa €300k in the accounts of ER Sportsgroup Gmbh. We explained what we had done on here at the time. The important point is that the holding company ER Sportsgroup only had 1 investment and that was and still is BC Bantams (and indirectly Bradford City Football Club). Given that ownership structure, I fail to understand how else the revenues could arrive in the accounts of ER Sportsgroup without it having come from BC Bantams or Bradford City Football Club.

    Much later, indeed only in the past few weeks, another poster linked to a summary of ER Sportsgroup from Dunn&Bradstreet. This is the link ....

    https://www.dnb.com/business-directory/company-profiles.er_sportsgroup_gmbh.827860c16450a030873c142fc73658a8.html

    In it, you'll easily see that the turnover (revenues) of the holding company ER Sportsgroup Gmbh is identified as $355k. That is broadly in line with the original analysis when converted into euros. I'd welcome your explanation of this. It may not fit your narrative or agree with the club's management accounts. But then I wouldn't expect it to given that the acounts you had access to were simply day-to-day management accounts and therefore don't necessarily reflect the interaction and transfer of funds between the three companies. From my experience those are usually matters for the shareholders.

    One solution to avoid this confusion would be for the club to start publishing full financial accounts for both BC Bantams and Bradford City Football club. Everything would then be open and transparent and anybody who wished to read the accounts would see quite clearly the extent to which the owner is funding the club or vice versa. Those transactions may amount to zilch but may not. In the recent past Ryan Sparks has promised to do this. Unfortunately that didn't happen. Only abbreviated published accounts were published. They were however supported by selected highlights from the full accounts which clearly exist but no mention was made of the related transactions between the three companies.

    Is this part of a conspiracy? No, unless you want to regard it as such. It is reporting the facts from the perspective of the club's ultimate holding company as reported in its accounts and supported by the analysis from Dunn&Bradstreet.
     
  19. johndewhirst

    johndewhirst Emergency Backup

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    'Mike', thanks for the message. I'm not after an apology but I would suggest to you that Stefan Rupp deserves one. If I was in his position getting this sort of nonsense I'd be pretty hacked off (as I am sure you would) and I'd give him credit for not seeking legal address. I doubt for example that many other past chairmen at VP would exercise restraint in this situation. Going through the postings a libel lawyer would have a field day and in fact you might opt to revisit others.
     
  20. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    Please keep your petty insults to yourself.

    I wrote about this matter long before John was given access to the club's management accounts around the time when Rahic left the club. I don't recall you asking any questions at the time. When John wrote his piece in WOAP, I asked one question which was about the source of his anlaysis. As expected, the response was that it all came from the club's own management accounts rather than the full financial accounts of the two companies, the club and its holding company. Therein imo lies the problem. You'll probably get a better insight if you read my earlier post.
     
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