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Marcus Rashford and the 'free school meals'.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Rogered Tart, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. ahar964

    ahar964 Squad Player
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    On the late news last night they interviewed a Leeds headmaster who keeps his school open for exactly those reasons. Also, not that he should have to, he has raised funds from businesses and others to buy food to feed the kids and also, I think, deprived families
     
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  2. Damo

    Damo Squad Player

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    True. And there is point scoring going on, but it's got to the stage that there is absolutely zero accountability, or admittance that things could have been done better. Its virtually a case of show no weakness. 12bn on a track and case where they cannot account for 8bn. Thats simply not good enough in any situation even with hindsight. Everyone is an expert with hindsight I agree.
     
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  3. 1975citygent

    1975citygent Impact Sub

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    When this is hopefully all over or at least at a stage where we can live with it (Covid-19), even if that means taking a vaccine every twelve months, there is going to be a big recovery job for the economy.
    I don't think at the moment the government can afford to worry too much about the debt we are racking up, even though it is something we can't ignore in the future.
    We need to keep supporting these businesses and their employees. They will be needed to help us recover. If the businesses are no longer there and their employees are out of work not only will they not be paying taxes to the Treasury, they will be claiming benefits.
     
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  4. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    The problem is in term time providing free school meals in the grand scheme of things is fairly cheap, most of the costs, after all, are sunk costs as they need to be paid for just to have the kids in school for lessons. Providing them out of term normally means vouchers, I believe they were getting £15 a week when I highly doubt the cost is anywhere near that when the schools proving them (On my local news they went to a Manchester school for Breakfast club, they were getting half a bagel with some butter and a class of orange. Looking at a Food Wholesale site you can get Bagels for 17p each so for half its 8.5p and a carton of orange juice can be got for 71p for 1 litre. With glass being about 200ml that's 5 glasses so 14p. That's 22.5p per kid for breakfast. You could give them a slice of toast instead and get the price down further. Also, schools most likely are getting them even cheaper than that, certainly, when I was at school they bought orange juice in massive containers, not sure what they held but certainly more than 1L

    Now if you open schools at meal times you might get the cheap costs of food again but you now need to bring staff in which means more pay, this included most likely having to bring some teachers in to monitor the pupils. It may then end costing more than the vouchers. Also if you also don't have the kids who pay for school meals coming in because let's be honest why would they if the school wasn't the only way to get a meal, they may not get the same bulk prices, especially for perishable items that they can't buy and store the excess until term starts

    And if you just scrap half term and have kids in non-stop you now have a number of weeks of paying everyone the school needs to operate that you weren't previously paying so cost is suddenly jumping up. You also risk burn out for the kids without a break which means most likely you are then paying teachers to babysit kids while they watch movies or do 'fun activities' which is a bit of a waste of fully trained teachers.

    So these two options may financially not make sense over vouchers but you can't police how vouchers are spent. There is no guarantee that if they aren't getting a meal anyway that they will with the vouchers.

    Also often as someone else mentioned the kids that struggle the most aren't actually those from the worst-off families. They already get a number of benefits, benefits that during COVID have had a boost. It's those kids whose families are borderline, these parents get no or little help as they don't qualify for any benefits but are on low wages that even at the best of times is a struggle.


    Mind you having looked up the stats it really isn't the issue that is being made out IMHO. Rashford keeps talking about millions of kids but looking at official stats it's not. There are 8.82million pupils in the UK 186k take School meals but only 96k are apparently eligible (and not all of them take them up). Anyone actually eligible according to the guidelines is already on one of the benefits that received an increase of £20 a week until April 2021 so in theory, they already have more money in their pockets which should cover extra food outside of term time
     
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    #44 SimonW, Oct 22, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  5. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Squad Player

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    I think you misunderstood what I meant about schools being open in the holiday. I didn't have in mind that vulnerable children would be getting extra school work time. It would be like a holiday club. No need for it to be staffed by teachers at all.

    Every point you've raised here (and all valid parts of the discussion, thanks) are about money. That's a pretty sad place to come at this from. These kids are vulnerable due to no fault of their own. We can accurately predict the life chances for these children and it's not good for society as a whole. Identifying them and then investing in them at an early age could be beneficial to society and actually save money in the long run if we can get it right.

    I absolutely agree about the borderline children by the way. I've lived it, that was me as a child. Working parents but barely managing. Neither one thing or the other. That's a different discussion about fair wages, tax credits, child tax credits and all of that.
     
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  6. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    My point was that not everyone is like that unlike what was being suggested and even restricting vouchers wouldn't work for the minority who might want to do that as they could be sold on.
     
  7. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    Great suggestion but will all you teachers want overtime if we're eating into your 26 weeks holiday a year?
     
  8. How

    How Knows Football
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    I still think Marcus rashford will win on this and we will see a u-turn. Not sure if anyone’s seen but he is currently highlighting businesses that are offering to feed kids during half term all over the country. He has so much universal support.
     
  9. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Squad Player

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    It's only 13 weeks holiday, how dare you!
     
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  10. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    I hope he does force them into a u- turn. Its not cut and dried and easy as some make out but the overriding factor has to be that hungry children take the priority in the debate over the small minority that can't or simply don't want to take responsibility.
     
  11. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    The way it should be. Society pulling together without needing to rely on the government.

    Good on the businesses and people for volunteering to do this. Credit to them.
     
  12. How

    How Knows Football
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    I am fairly certain you say things to be the opposite now on purpose
     
  13. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    I don't know what you mean.

    As I've said a number of time I like the government being light touch and people not being reliant on them but equally don't want kids to go hungry. I like this as a societal solution to a societal problem and everyone involved should get credit.
     
  14. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    I'm sure it's not the meaning of the post but that reads like "I'm glad the issue is getting resolved, I just didn't want to pay for it as it doesn't really concern me".
     
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  15. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    I can see why you would think that as these debates often centre around cost but I've purposely tried to veer away from that and focus on the balance of responsibility.

    I suppose whenever you say that you don't want the government to step in that it can always be framed as a cost issue but to me it's more of an outlook that people shouldn't always look to the state for them to take direct responsibility for things and be overly reliant on them.
     
  16. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    This is my take on the situation as well. Like any well meaning idea there are people in society that will take advantage of the generosity for their own benefit. But in a time of deep uncertainty and depression Marcus Rashford has brought people together in a way which gives hope and shows the better side of society. To any politician that voted against this motion brought by Rashford should be ashamed of themselves.
     
  17. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    Perhaps you could acknowledge that there are 2 sides to every argument...
     
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  18. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    I don't worry about it any more. As soon as you indicate that you might prefer small government and people/society taking personal responsibility and not automatically looking to the state you might as well have two heads.
     
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  19. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    You're dead right, self responsibility is an alien concept to most folk today alas...
     
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  20. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    What people are missing though is most of them (ie anyone who isn't now on benefits due to losing their job due to COVID) are all getting more money each week than they were pre-covid because all the qualifying benefits have seen an increase higher than the value of the vouchers. It's one thing if they couldn't afford to feed their kids properly before but if they still can't keep them fed you have to ask what are these parents doing with the extra money and are they going to use the vouchers to feed their kids or on themselves?
     
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