Central midfield

Cullen wasn't the biggest and this is L2. We need someone to purely win the ball and pass to the next player plus protect the defence - often the best CDM have been small, I'd wager because tackling is about timing and balance and the smaller the player the more balanced they are (in theory) as their centre of gravity is lower

 

That comfort blanket only comes when they were good

 

It's the new fad these days - 'protect the defence'. We need a new cliche every couple of years! Total football has been missing for a few now....

 

If McCall's last spell was anything to go by it's not really that important. We went unbeaten at home as teams were petrified of pressing us or trying to come out and play. They can't score if we have the ball and McCall teams can keep the ball for fun.

 

McHugh is no Josh Cullen though. Josh is a top top player. I always though McHugh was in the mould of Luke O’Brien, ie overrated by a lot of our fans. Would be a massive gamble to sign McHugh and stick him in central midfield, ie pointless.

 

Didn't we have AOC in the defensive midfield role at one point. We could do that and get the flair players alongside him?

 

Why? That's where he's been playing for most of the time since he left us, including in the Scottish PL, which is higher standard than where we currently are. Not a massive gamble at all.

 

It was me that mentioned McHugh. Purely because we need a defensive midfielder and there are few on the free agent market. I was never his biggest fan but we're hardly spoiled for choice.

 

Problem is, our other centre backs are all a bit crap. He's actually the best one we have.

 

Well I think Stu should put on his boots. Just seen a training vid, he is running with the ball and bouncing it on his toes and knees to control it, he still has it at 53!

 

Absolutely agree.

We need a bit of bite in there, definitely, but we don't need to 'protect the defence'.

Gary Jones gave a bit of bite, so did Stuart - but neither were there to sit in front of a back four.

No thank you.

Bowyer confused ultra-defensiveness with possession football, so it might have suited him to have a midfield anchor, but I don't remember McCall ever using one before. The only player that came close was Vincelot, but he played a lot in central defence anyway.

 

So true. Ngolo Kante is one of the best defensive midfielders in the World and he’s only 5 feet 6.

 

Agreed, but so was Patrick Vieira who is 6'4". I am not convinced that height is a deciding factor for the quality of a defensive midfielder. Maybe skill is more important?

 

With respect, that's not a fad for the sake of it, it's part of the top flight evolution of tactics. Wonder why Alexander-Arnold and Robertson have so many goals and assists or why Man City spent such a fortune on full backs before dominating the Premiership for a couple of years? Because of that 'protecting the defence' role of one midfielder filling in for the defensive roles of two full-backs.

It's to counter that 4-2-3-1 system that had evolved to block possession based "tiki-taka" (two deep 'protectors' to force attacking midfielders wider and one full back going forward being afforded cover from midfield). At the top level, so many wingers now cut inside by default that the full backs are expected to stay high and offer that width, so you now have a front 5 plus support from a shuttling midfielder. So it's arguably a more attacking strategy, on paper.

So am I defending Bowyer? No. Come to teams trying to implement that at League 2 level (including Bowyer) and the level of full backs isn't up to 90 minutes of constant running whilst retaining whatever their best attacking/defending qualities are. When we were trying this it made some sense on paper (to me), but for all the debatable qualities of Henley, Mellor and Wood, they aren't the all-round packages they were being asked to be and Bowyer never seemed to be able to accept or address this. Furthermore, the 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 we sometimes tried meant there wasn't anyone higher up the pitch to try making space for the full backs to even try that.

Obviously, that's not all-in, but just my observations. I don't envy the balance of the squad McCall's inherited, but hopefully he can work with the limitations of the players a bit more - I'm sure he'll at least not try to enforce something that the players clearly aren't cut out for at least.

 

I agree @dodge33cymru. The standard of player that is playing in this league are really not up to what was being asked both on a physical level and skill level. My criticism of GB was not what he tried to do, but failing to see it was not working and his inability to change as a result.

 

Brilliant first post.

 

Great points Dodge - the Liverpool 'wing backs' have sound defensive awareness, crossing ability to match the best of wingers as well as being supreme athletes. They also have the defensive guidance of VVD who exudes confidence both vocally and by his own performance - try then assessing all these attributes into our own players in this position and you can see where the immediate problems lie.
I expect more energy from all the players under Stuart but I think a basic defenders who can defend and wingers who can provide crosses and opportunities will be one of initial core messages SMc and Black will try to install

 

Yes, you could definitely make the case that Bowyer's tactics failed because his wing backs simply weren't good enough as wing backs.

And while you make the case very well for sitting a midfielder in front of the defence in similar formations, I don't think it's a prerequisite for Stuart - I don't think it's required at all, depending what formation he plays.

As for the evolution of tactics at the elite level, the true fad for me is League Two managers mindlessly copying those tactics unnecessarily.

I get that whatever works at the top will trickle down the divisions, but in my opinion Bowyer and his ilk who speak about studying the sport are the most at risk of imitating tactics that simply aren't suitable. Bowyer could have set up his side exactly as Liverpool do, could have coached them each to understand their individual roles, and we'd probably still have had 10 shots on target in 8 games.

 

He played 30 games in 2 seasons for us.

Yeah, to be fair he's spot on. Asking the players to do something they're not capable of is always gonna end badly.