Brexit

I belive you're correct they don't want to leave without a deal, unfortunatly the only way of getting a better deal has been snatched from Johnson's hands and left him with very little to negotiate with.
But let's be honest none of the other parties wanted to leave only the Labour party playing lip service to their electorate.
As a Labour party supporter all my working life their deceit has disgusted me, they will certainly pay with regards voters in the North of England.

 

As yet no. As StaffordBantam above says, we’re perhaps stretching things a little, but nothing essentially unconstitutional has happened. The sitting executive ignoring legislation to ask for an extension would begin to knock on the door of constitutional crisis.

For a full on constitutional crisis we have to be taking the army and the police force away from the crown. So for instance, ignoring legislation for an extension, and then also ordering the police and army to ignore an arrest warrant (as in, an actual coup) - which is within the gift of the executive.

 

And herein lies the problem of a referendum with none of the parties of the time supporting the change position. In the event that the change position wins it creates an immediate democratic wedge issue.

I understand the position you have and I imagine it must be extremely frustrating.

 

Someone with a better knowledge of politics might be able to give me some sort of answer but with the fiasco surrounding brexit what is the long term future for this country and for Europe and the EU? With the shift of manufacturing bases and industry to new pastures in a global economy and the emergence of rising economies elsewhere what is the future of the EU either with or without us? Looking for opinions cos i genuinely don't have one.

 

There are a number of factual inaccuracies in this post.

I’ll begin with the first, and probably most important. We are a parliamentary democracy, parliament is sovereign. Under a presidential system, the president is sovereign, however our prime minister is operating under the auspices of parliament. This means that nothing that parliament legislate for is merely advisory.

Yes, the EU state that only a sitting PM can request an extension, however there is absolutely nothing stopping parliament from legislating a PM to do that. If you believe otherwise, I’m going to need to ask for a citation. There will be no court case because there is not one to hear.

The referendum itself was not legally binding. This has near enough become a cliche over the past two years. And I believe it’s materially irrelevant that it was advisory, but there’s no legally binding element to it. If Boris Johnson was silly enough to promise to people that we would leave on Oct 31st, that’s his problem and nobody else’s. Just bad politics.

As for consulting the EU, I still don’t see what is wrong with this. They’ve not signed a deal, but foreign powers talk to UK acting agents all the time. The EU aren’t going to sign any legislation on behalf of it. Can the EU talk to the BoE? What about British business?

Where I think you might have a point is the speaker of the house. I can sympathise somewhat with claims that John Bercow has maybe overstepped his mark.

 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1170399730326822913

Sorry about another twitter link. This is Barry Sheerman, Labour MP for Huddersfield and his distain for the leave voters. Just reinforces my view that MPs are thicker than the people they are supposed to represent.

 

I don’t think anyone really knows to be honest. I don’t think that Brexit plays too big a role in the future of the EU, except form potentially making any future breakaways less likely.

I think we’ve made our bed in the service sector and now we pretty much have to lie in that. There’s no precedent for re-starting a manufacturing industry. In terms of the EU, I can see that trend growing, although there’s more of a manufacturing sector across the EU, so I guess it could just grow towards the service sector slightly slower.

 

It’s a pretty thick thing to say to be fair. How do they find these people?

 

Its one of the reasons we find ourselves in this sort of political mess, theres reasoned debate and discussion to be had about not just brexit but the world of politics as a whole and then we get this sort of crap, and from an MP for goodness sake. Like a lot of crap from the house of commons it adds nothing whatsoever to the debate, in fact all it does is turn it into yet another 'my dads bigger than your dad' slanging match again. Idiots like Rees Mogg and David Lammy do it all the time.

 

With regards the referendum anyone with half a brain realised Cameron made that offer to the electorate for 2 reasons, UKIP and Farage were getting loades of backing and were a possible danger going forward, and he believed the electorate weren't dumb enough to vote to leave the EU, boy did that come as a shock to the establishment, the other being when the electorate voted the referendum down he could go back to his anti EU MPs and say "there you are the electorate have no appetite for leaving the EU".
Maybe in hindsight Cameron should not have offered the referendum but the EU had grown into something many were not happy with, and talk of the EU becoming The United Stats of Europe was becoming a possible reality.
There was talk of Turkey joining in the future, a country that is as much Asian as European, then a European Army, too many it was a step too far.
But we are where we are and for most people its not acceptable as one of the countries who were held in high esteem we have become a joke and that has to be put down to our politicians.

 

You won’t be surprised that I disagree with the majority. Not going to go through line for line because I really can’t be bothered.

 

It may seem a step too far with regards taking the whip from the likes of Ken Clarke and Sir Nicholas Soames and others (Winston Churchills grandson) wtf has that got to do with the debate, he voted down the last chance Boris had of getting changes with regards Mays deal.
Once Mays deal was voted down (for the 3rd time) and Boris Johnson put himself forward for the new PM he had to say he'd leave without a deal it was his last card to play.
As posted above I believe if the threat of no deal had got the EU to remove or reword the back stop that would have been acceptable to most parties and MPs, unfortunatly we'll never know.
There will be a straight choice if and when the date of the General Election is called, Labour and the others position is remain and the Brexit and the Tory party is to leave, there will be a big shift in Tory party candidates for the coming General Election they will be selected on the basis of their opinion with regards the referendum and be leavers as most of Boris's present cabinet are.

 

And Emily Thornberry said Boris told lies, don't you just love this lying ****.

 

There’s literally nothing I’ve said that you can disagree with. It’s all fact, there’s no room for interpretation in any of it.

 

This is the way it is now, mate. I’ll say it’s Monday tomorrow, someone will come on and say it isn’t. And we have to agree to disagree, because free speech or something.

 

Everything’s just become way too tribal these days - and the cost of that has been any level of nuanced or reasoned debate. Nobody is willing to concede anything to anyone and it’s just a pissing match.

Sad, really, but the political discourse has been poisoned. I don’t think our electoral system does much to help in this. I’m not saying it’s a magic bullet, but if we moved to a more proportional representation like system then at least we’d have to get used to talking to each other and making compromise. We are where we are at the moment in large part due to neither side willing to show any compromise in fear of losing votes.

 

I agree, there seems to be a discolouration between facts and opinions these days.

 

He is just a puppet of momentum and he has to do and say as he is told........