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Bury FC

Discussion in 'General Football' started by Stafford Bantam, Jun 21, 2019.

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  1. Interested Bystander

    Interested Bystander Important Player
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    But simply withdrawing and holding on to the Golden Share" would effectively give them a second chance, and stop progression. You'd still be operating a closed shop, preserving the existing 92.
    The idea of an owner having to post a bond to the value of two seasons running costs, prior to the start of the season might be an idea though.
     
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    #81 Interested Bystander, Aug 23, 2019
  2. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    No, the club, in this case Bury, would be hit by a relegation (possibly two relegations, according to the circumstances). I'm only talking about it being used in extreme circumstances, where the owner is deemed to be 'rogue' and the action taken effectively removes them from running the League Club.

    Of course, if the EFL had a proper system in place, backed by an Independent Ombudsman, then cases like this should be very rare.
     
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    #82 Stafford Bantam, Aug 23, 2019
  3. Interested Bystander

    Interested Bystander Important Player
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    I think this has run it's course, no value in further debate as you're determined to deny any idea of a closed shop.
     
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    #83 Interested Bystander, Aug 23, 2019
  4. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    I want to see three teams (an increase of one) relegated from League Two every season; I honestly fail to see how that's a closed shop. But, as you say, we are clearly seeing this differently.
     
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    #84 Stafford Bantam, Aug 23, 2019
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  5. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    I suspect that the Bury saga has now almost run its course. Having just read the detail of the three charges on the assets and future income of the club, I don't see the club getting out of this mess unless there is a sugar daddy waiting in the wings. The likes of Dale and Day and McCarthy(?) can fight over the remains but I doubt there will be much left to keep the club running as a going concern. There is supposedly a line of credit for several millions but the identity of who is providing this has yet to be supplied to the IP .. and therefore it's vapourware at the mo. Maybe unbeknown to the rest of us, it's somebody on here with deep pockets who drives a big Merc?

    I only hope that the EFL now looks to itself and its own governance rules to understand what their inaction has done to create this situation. The rules as currently drafted are not just inadequate; they are unrelated to the modern world of business ownership and wouldn't stop another Bury from happening.

    Two things have to happen to the current rules imo. Firstly, the 'Owners and Directors' test has to be widened from its prinicpal focus on a limited number of criminal convictions to a much broader one based on business and/or sporting competences. Secondly, the wishy washy requirement for clubs having to have sufficient funding for the season is a nonsense. Nobody and certainly not the EFL have really said what this means and anybody with an ounce of sense would drive a coach and horses through the current set-up. It's pointless at the moment. It needs a major overhaul about what it means and stonger sanctions for those clubs who do not meet the criteria. And I include in that greater openness and more clarity on the ownership not just of the club but also of its key assets. It might result in further Bury's in the short term but for the longer term good of lower level football it simply has to be done. Whether the turkeys who currently own the clubs would vote for an early Christmas in changing the ownership rules is highly questionable! I'm not holding my breath and unfortunately don't imagine changes will introduced in the near future.
     
    #85 Dennis, Aug 23, 2019
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  6. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    Update from the EFL: https://www.efl.com/news/2019/august/statement-bury-fc/
     
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    #86 Stafford Bantam, Aug 23, 2019
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  7. Wolfysmith

    Wolfysmith Impact Sub

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    What I want to see is the EFL being more proactive before clubs get into these positions of Bury and Bolton. Regular inspections by league officials in terms of deep dives into how clubs are being financed and where owners are mis-spending or gambling recrecklessly with its future , then the owner is suspended and EFL officials appointed to run the club until a 'fit and proper owner' can be found.
    I appreciate clubs are to a large extent privately owned businesses but they subscribe to the league to do business. That in my eyes makes them franchises of the EFL. So the EFL should be doing more to ensure these franchises meet the requirements set by their own rules. Not waiting until it goes tits up and slapping a punitive 12 point deduction. Too little too late
     
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    #87 Wolfysmith, Aug 23, 2019
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  8. Interested Bystander

    Interested Bystander Important Player
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    Who defines misspending though ? or when is a gamble a gamble and not an investment ?
     
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    #88 Interested Bystander, Aug 23, 2019
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  9. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Can not see that standing up to court scrutiny.
     
    #89 Storck, Aug 23, 2019
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  10. Wolfysmith

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    Yeah but its not like a standalone business. If you want to be a part of the EFL and then you need to abide by its rules and compliance. The trouble is that the current rules and compliance are not strong enough to protect clubs from mis-management.
    If the EFL had more stringent oversight of clubs then the situuatio we have currentlty with Bury and Bolton wouldn't happen.
    If owners sign up to a legally set of binding rules and governance set by the EFL then they couldn't and wouldn't be able to stop the EFL from managing a club if they found it wasn't be run in a fit and proper mannet
     
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    #90 Wolfysmith, Aug 23, 2019
  11. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    The bit in your post says legally binding. I don’t think a rule as you suggest would be legally binding, that is the problem. You can not have the EFL just taking over a private business like that, who would then be liable for any debts built up whilst the EFL ran it, the league as a whole?
     
    #91 Storck, Aug 23, 2019
  12. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Claims on Twitter that the club has been sold. If true the league could extend the deadline
     
    #92 Storck, Aug 23, 2019
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  13. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    #93 Bigrod, Aug 23, 2019
  14. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    In most senses, the clubs are largely stand alone, 'privately' owned businesses, largely governed by the Companies Acts and Charities Acts. But and this is the important but, they are also members of the EFL and therefore equally subject to the EFL's rules and regulations. Whilst most of those rules are reasonably straightforward and well-understood, the rules around ownership, financial prudency and overall governance are largely pathetic and not fit for purpose. The football authorities closed some of the loopholes on player ownership following the Tevez/Mascherano problems and then had another go after SISU pulled a fast one. But there are still some glaring issues around who can be a club owner and/or director and continued access to grounds which aren't in the ownership of clubs which is a growing issue and of course, the absence of strong overall governance. And we are as guilty as anybody else in that last category in the eyes of many.

    Of course, many people understand these problems and what needs doing about them. So why haven't they been resolved? The answer is in the Byzantine nature of the EFL's decision making on rule changes. And that is exacerbated by the 'turkeys not wanting to vote for Christmas' mentality. For example, the chairmen of all clubs have the final vote on rule changes via a very complex voting regime and if the chairmen collectively don't want to tighten up say the ownership criteria, it won't happen. That's what footie is up against ... the vested interests of the club chairmen.
     
    #94 Dennis, Aug 23, 2019
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  15. Petrov

    Petrov Squad Player

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    I hope for the Bury supporters that this deal goes through but if Dale makes any sort of profit from this, it sets a dangerous precedent. How many other potential unscrupulous buyers will see this as an opportunity to acquire a struggling club for peanuts, not fulfill any financial obligations, push said club to the rink of extinction and then accept a bid at the 11th hour and walk away quids in. The EFL cannot allow him to get away with this.
     
    #95 Petrov, Aug 23, 2019
    Bantamsteve, Stafford Bantam and Onside like this.
  16. Dubai bantam

    Dubai bantam Impact Sub
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    I've just been reading about the Bury Debacle on the BBC sport page and noticed that the EFL have confirmed that if Bury are expelled from the football league, then only 3 teams shall be relegated from league 1. So at the top end of league 2, one would assume that 4 teams would still be promoted (taking the place of the 3 relegated clubs, plus Bury), with 2 teams being relegated from league 2. But, the following season, who would replace Bury's spot in league 2? Would an additional spot for promotion be up for grabs from the national league? There would also be a knock on effect down the football pyramid....

    League one this season is a laughing stock, and essentially there are now only 2 relegation spots from that league, being as Bolton start on -12, and are a basket case, and Bury similar.

    If the same scenario had happened last season, Bradford city may not have been in league 2 (i am aware we finished bottom thus would still have been relegated third bottom) as the results against bury and Bolton may have resulted in wins and given us the points to survive....
     
    #96 Dubai bantam, Aug 24, 2019
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  17. shoatsy

    shoatsy Regular Starter
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    I think just 1 club would be relegated from league 2 .
    I really hope Bury survive though feel for their fans and enjoyed away trips there.
     
    #97 shoatsy, Aug 24, 2019
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  18. wetherbywhaler

    wetherbywhaler Impact Sub

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    Looks like C&N Ventures, or similar have reached a deal but subject to EFL approval. The C in the newco is the son of Alistair Campbell the Tony Blair spin doctor. Suspect EFL will approve even though the finances are unknown.
     
    #98 wetherbywhaler, Aug 24, 2019
  19. Dubai bantam

    Dubai bantam Impact Sub
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    I feel for their fans, however more needs to be done to regulate the spending of all EFL clubs. Every man and his dog could see what was happening at Bury over the last 3 seasons with the amount they were spending in player wages alone, yet the EFL and the FA did nothing but sit by and watch. it will happen more and more, but to Championship clubs as they chase the Premier League Dream. This shall become the norm unless its regulated unfortunately.
     
    #99 Dubai bantam, Aug 24, 2019
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  20. wetherbywhaler

    wetherbywhaler Impact Sub

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    See the comments of GB in today's T&A.
     
    #100 wetherbywhaler, Aug 24, 2019
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