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Flyover Confirmation & Suggested Open Letter to Press Outlets

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by JonButterfield, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. Twinny

    Twinny Emergency Backup

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    he wont be there anyway .
     
  2. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    [​IMG]

    Here they come!!!
     
  3. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Can I just say that the way you are treating @Park bantam@Park bantam is the exact reason why both your 'protest' and every other protest being talked about will fail.

    You will achieve nothing with a fractured movement, you need the majority of people on the same page to have any impact and that means you need to a joined-up, thought out plan that people can on mass get around. As I said before even if you truly think this fly over could have an impact of 'starting the movement' you haven't even put enough thought into how to harness that if it does inspire people. They will see it, think I agree and then go off to their own world which may consist of a few friends who are city fans and any discussion will never get outside of that group. I said that the way you shot down @king karl@king karl suggestion to have BantamTalk on the banner was a missed opportunity even if his motivations were more 'selfish' because it would give a 'gathering place' or at the very least a hashtag everyone could used to group discussions on social media but you haven't done that.

    And when @Park bantam@Park bantam mentions the suggestion that there may not be anyone waiting in the wings you counter by saying that just conjecture but your reason for saying that is equally conjecture. Selling football clubs is not easy, just ask Mike Ashley who has been trying to offload Newcastle and can't or Ellis Short who had to pay off hundreds of millions of debt from Sunderland and then almost give it way just to get rid of it. They aren't generally great investments, most lose money and you have to reach a certain level to 'print money' and for a League 1 side that's a lot of money that needs to be thrown at it. You are actually in that zone where you are too low for it to be possible in a shortish term (You aren't PL like City or Chelsea or even Championship like Wolves) BUT you are also too high for that real 'rags to riches' story that the likes of Salford and Billericay are trying. So you are unlikely to have many people if any just waiting in the wings. Just hoping you do and that they would be any better is just blind faith which people can't generally get behind get behind. Again this is why you need a joined up campaign involving as much of the fanbase as possible, ideally with some of these having contacts of people who may be in the wings so discussions can be had with them and their plans can be shared so that people can have an idea of what's on the table and if it seems a better option rather than an 'anyone but edin' option. If you have a better option on the table then you have something people can rally around but if you don't then what are people getting behind? Moves that largely destabilise the players further meaning even worse results while also hitting the clubs financial stability and which even if it drove them to sell up they might not find a buyer and leave the club in limbo?

    And I'm going to have some of you attack me with petty little digs so I'll save you the trouble and say don't even bother. All I'm trying to do is help you, across my posts without even really trying I've put across more joined-up strategy than any of the groups of fans be it from here or elsewhere have done. You need to stop acting like separate groups of headless chickens that are so desperate to be seen to be doing their 'part' now that you aren't looking at the bigger picture. You need to start doing that if you want change because you are going to struggle as long as its small isolated actions and each seperate group are attacking each others ideas while attacking those who have issues or concerns with all the plans
     
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  4. bantamlad92

    bantamlad92 Squad Player
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    @SimonW@SimonW, no movement/protest will ever have full backing of everyone.

    Also, it’s quite condescending of you to tell people it will fail in that manner.
     
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  5. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Did I say everyone? No I didn't. I said the masses

    And it's not condescending when its a fact. I know many of you think City are some 'Magically unique club where nothing that's ever happened elsewhere is relevant' but it's really not. Movements fall apart when people aren't generally pulling in the same direction. We have seen it over and over again, not just in English football but world football and also in other sports
     
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  6. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    You make some good points but then negate them all by mentioning Park Bantam.
     
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  7. bantamlad92

    bantamlad92 Squad Player
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    Wheres all this movement talk come from?

    You’re taking this too seriously, we’re not invading Rome, we just want Edin to pi$$ off out of our club. And people have chipped in a few quid to make it very well known how we feel.

    Cheers for your thoughts though
     
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  8. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    A few notes:

    We couldn't have the BantamTalk logo on the banner, as the banner consists of massive red letters. Not logos, pictures, images, or anything else we might want people to see. I agree it's a good idea, and if it were plausible it would have been done.

    No protest or movement has ever NOT been fractured - ever. There is always a line, and always sides, and the strength and depth of those sides will change over time. It's not a protest or a movement if it's just a general acceptance of fact, and while it's surprising Edin isn't roundly despised, he's despised enough for a division, a protest, and a movement. That says more than a banner ever could.

    An idea implanted in people's heads has zero limits in terms of potential impact. Who knows what comes next? More creative individuals will see this stunt, and if they wish to follow it up, so be it.

    Park Bantam seems like a good guy, and genuinely thinks he's doing the right thing denouncing this flyover. But the people who funded the flyover are also good people doing what they, in turn, believe is the right thing. There cannot be an answer yet as to who is right. Nobody knows. Nobody. So it's pointless pretending we do know.

    You've had a lot to say on the matter, and no doubt you've had a solid input in the discussion. I'm glad that discussion exists, and we'll see where it goes from here.
     
    Utters0 and CT Bantam like this.
  9. CT Bantam

    CT Bantam Impact Sub
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    Only the lucky 1st 64. We were oversubscribed within a couple of days.
     
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  10. The Evidence

    The Evidence Squad Player
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    Winner
     
  11. CT Bantam

    CT Bantam Impact Sub
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    Unfortunately we can't wait around for your prediction to be realised
     
  12. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    Honestly, this logic makes no sense.

    Forget that I think movements and protests require divide, and look at the facts.

    City fans have chanted against the owners/Edin ONCE at Valley Parade.

    You think everyone is going to pull in the same direction ALREADY?!

    For some of our fans, we've had a bad start. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing sinister. They'll fall in with the movement if nothing changes, I'm pretty sure of that. But for now, they are being told January will be a pivotal point where Hopkin will be given the resources required to get us out of the mire. So a high percentage of these fans will wait for January to come and go before nailing their colours to the mast. Even then, you can't just rock up on Feb 1 and write off any work done throughout January, so maybe support will intensify in March or April if nothing changes.

    The number one, most likely cause for any movement to fall apart is actual on field success brought about by actual off field success. All it will take is a few good results, back-to-back, and the less certain fans will quickly side AGAINST protest. That's fine. If the protest 'movement' dies, so what? No one loses anything. If Rahic and Rupp sort it out, great. Let's not be precious about it. A statement from the fans is a statement, not a contract they're obliged to follow for all time. The discussion can then turn to the effects turning up the pressure may or may not have had. Life goes on.

    I just don't think your all-or-nothing mindset is relevant, to be honest.
     
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  13. How

    How Knows Football
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    The banner is restricted isn’t it?

    How do you expect them to make out bantam talk on it when restricted lettering anyway?
     
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  14. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    I have gone back to this post, as it needs a response.

    Park how can you ‘talk and persuade’ someone who is in Germany and the other individual, despite the comment that he will listen (made at the beginning of September), has after much effort by BCST, who wrote to him more than once (I am sure someone from that organisation will correct me if I am wrong) has only met with one group. It is now November. Evidence says this hasn’t happened!

    Has he set up a channel so that supporters can make ‘...comments made towards me are respectful, I will always listen and take on board any concerns’. Read more at: https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/bradford-city/i-am-truly-sorry-for-some-of-my-decisions-at-bradford-city-admits-rahic-1-9346643

    Where is the mechanism?

    Have you been in touch with either of the owners? Have you had an opportunity to express your views? Have they replied? If yes what have they said?

    I recall SYB’s promises of a meeting with Edin, which despite their reported direct link with the Club, came to nothing.

    Rahic said ‘l am sorry’,
    • He has never explained what he is sorry about.
    • He has never explained what he did that was wrong
    • He has never said what he will do differently.
    Someone who is the head of an organisation, which had failed would hold a review. Has this happened? An open manager would ‘share’ this with his ‘customers’, demonstrate what they have learnt and what they will do differently.

    Where is an ‘Action Plan’ which demonstrates how change can be achieved.

    As far as Ican see nothing has changed, except Rahic has gone even further into his shell.

    I actually agree that the ‘fly past’ is not in itself likely to bring about any significant change. However I can understand the frustration and the need to do something.

    Frankly unless there is an avenue to talk and persuade, then what are the alternative’s. The initiative is Rahic’s to set in motion, his lack of constructive action, suggests indecisive and what could be seen as weak leadership, when faced with people who he cannot use his power, in terms of their employment prospects!
     
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  15. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    Are you a civil servant? Just curious...

    I love this post, and the detail and depth of thought. Very pragmatic.

    But yes, Rahic doesn't embrace discussion in any way, shape, or form.

    He actually actively runs away from it.

    If things go wrong, he goes home. He then stays home until it's safe to come back.

    What's that? It's not leadership, and he's only been here three years - it's already a recognised pattern among a fanbase who literally have no idea about his day-to-day movements - except for when he very noticeably runs away.

    He's a flake, a fraud, a failure, and should be forgotten as soon as possible (though maybe he should be remembered as it's best to learn lessons from the past...?)
     
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  16. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    I wonder what people will do when this plane flies past?

    Seems as though there are a few options:-

    • Ignore/stare.
    • Applaud.
    • Boo.
    • Go to the toilet/Food stand.
    We could create a Poll! :)
     
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  17. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    There have been talks between supporters organisations and Rahic and you can read the response on the bcst website.
    Rupp has issued a statement where he said Hopkin can sign free agents and there will be money to spend in January and Hopkin will bring in his own signings. Hopkin an bring his own staff in. That is definite change and progress
    As for how the company is run we had an argument a few years ago on Claret and Banter and it was decided we are customers not stakeholders therefore how the company is run is down to the directors
     
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    #477 Park bantam, Nov 1, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  18. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    Unfair use of pluralism. Define 'talks' and 'organisations' by referring to more than one discussion/entity.

    Hopkin hasn't brought in his own staff.

    Good point on us being customers! Absolutely reinforces the right to not purchase a terrible product.
     
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  19. banbrotam

    banbrotam Impact Sub

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    But in fairness to Park, the mood music has changed 180 degrees. The board couldn't be bending over backwards any more if they tried, to show that he's in charge. They're even happy for us to spend money on out of contract players, who will demand a fairly good salary and aren't even likely to be fit enough for the current battle

    Park can speak for himself, but I suspect Rahic could make an open statement to say that he's taking a backseat and Hopkin has full backing to do whatever he wants (which if you think about it - is actually occurring) and yet you and the others would still be suspicious

    Your comment about the backroom staff illustrates this. Are you suggesting that he's not allowed, when he's openly said he is allowed? He strikes me as Neil Lennon type character - I can't see anyone been allowed to bully or manipulate him. Can you?

    If this is largely agreed, then the board have, as I said above, changed sufficiently to be given a 'wait and see' type backing, whilst still watching them like a hawk and of course still with suspicion

    It's not as though this about turn hasn't been done elsewhere. Vincent Tan made Rahic look like Mark Lawn, the Cardiff fans were forever criticising and that was a toxic club two years ago. Then he hired Warnock, another who is not know for knowingly been pushed around, faded into the background and is now weirdly a Cardiff hero

    I can't help think that this is protest at the sacking of McCall and the decisions made from then until Collins went.

    With the injuries it was never going to be a cake walk to turn this around - what we needed is a board that demonstrably 100% backed a manager who'd walk if he didn't get that. We've got that. Let's support it 100%, no matter how much distrust there might still be and not create an atmosphere that will further disturb players who are already short of confidence
     
  20. banbrotam

    banbrotam Impact Sub

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    Park's view is just as valid as yours. Just because it doesn't fit in with your view is there a need for this kind of comment?
     

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