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Manager or Players?

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Andyone, Nov 14, 2024.

  1. Andyone

    Andyone Fringe Player

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    Forget about Rupp, Sparks etc. That's been addressed so for this discussion leave them aside.
    Let's just concentrate on our current position and form and discuss if it's Alexanders' or the players fault that we can't seem to get a run going of importance?
    Obviously GA picks the team and sets them up but we have seen that the players can perform, although mainly it's patchy.
    Could it be that GA is too soft with the players or just that we don't have enough winners wanting success? Or something else...
     
  2. DimitriPayet

    ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

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    Players are not stupid (some likely are) and they can see the same as us. Alexander is extremely boring as a man and a manager. His interviews are pointless as he speaks without saying anything. How many players have been “a week away” yet have been missing for months?

    Also, playing players out of position, keeping and forcing Oliver back into the fold etc. I think they've stopped playing for him and its only a matter of time until he is gone.

    He typically doesn't last more than 1.5 years at a club
     
    Salty likes this.
  3. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator World Cup 26 WC 2026 3rd Place ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant F1 2026 Entrant

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    Do you not think part of it is simply the league? I feel this is a league where you have this perfect storm where the squads are often fairly even while the squads lack players with that quality that can help drag a team through matches where they are struggling. And everyone knows that and also how important getting out of the league is so it heaps a massive amount of pressure on the players which they often aren't equipped to deal with

    As such you see a league where confidence seems to be more key than perhaps any other league, you get that little bit of luck and clubs seem to go on runs of wins and equally you get the luck go against you and then they go on a run of losses. Without being able to go and buy a core of better class players who have the experience and mentality that more players have in the leagues above League 2 you are relying so much on getting that bit of initial luck and hoping you can ride the confidence for long enough before an act of bad luck derails you so you have that buffer to take a run of bad results.
     
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  4. Salty

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    Surely then it's up to the manager to bring in and then develop the mentality? That involves giving the players the chance to play to their strengths and not just to your system
     
    Bronco likes this.
  5. JonButterfield

    World Cup 26 Supporter ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

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    He's not soft on rookie players, he seems like a bit of a wimpy character who punishes and drops young lads, but backs down when someone like Cook is giving him backchat on the pitch.

    While I also wouldn't want to fall out with Cook given how vital he is, he's not undroppable. Hughes showed that. He came back just fine. I don't think GA is as stern as Hughes when it comes to 'big' players but is pointlessly hard on Sanderson and Pointon.

    It's not just a "these lads are young and need their feet on the ground", he messes these lads around. Pointon at LWB? Yeah, nah. Sanderson dropped forever despite having had a better season than Kav and Oliver? Makes no sense.

    Like I say, seems wimpy to me.
     
  6. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator World Cup 26 WC 2026 3rd Place ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant F1 2026 Entrant

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    Unless you are able to massively overspend and sell a project to players though I'm not sure the players who have that mentality and experience in them that allows a manager to mould them are often that eager ti drop to this level and when they are its often for one last payday because they really are past it otherwise we would see it happening much more so we wouldn't see clubs going on these win and loss cycles as much as we do in this league
     
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  7. Inspector

    Supporter

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    I think GA typifies the “if it ain’t broke FIX it” mentality. We’ve seen the devastation he causes where a simple “one in one out” would suffice, ends up being “one in, and 4 changes” completely upsetting the balance of the team to get fringe players onto the pitch. We saw it last season where Oduor was unplayable for a few games, particularly against Wycombe, only for Alexander to move him into midfield with Smallwood where it totally nullified his ability to roam around the pitch. He was then dropped (from memory) and never seemed to recapture that form. I think GA tries to be too clever for his own good.

    I know supporters think they know best, but most can see that Richards and Benn are the strongest wing backs we have, with Shepherd and Diabate either side of Byrne. Why does he persist with getting Wright and Halliday onto the pitch when neither offer anything in the final third? Stick to what works and we shouldn’t be too far away.
     
  8. Idlebantam

    World Cup 26 ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

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    Spot on.

    The way he mixed up almost half of the outfield players, playing out of position and selecting Oliver, to cover for the absence of Jack Shepherd, was absolute bonkers and definitely cost us the game in my and many others opinions.

    The worst of it is he wouldn't own up and said the first half performance was nothing to do with his selection and formation and blamed it squarely on the players.

    I'm really beginning to lose patience with GA now.
     
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  9. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player

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    How can we leave it to one side though? You're looking at the situation too simplistically.

    If the correct building blocks aren't in place behind the scenes and the correct support structure from the top doesn't allow a manager to create the squad or the environment he needs then everything at the club is already set up to fail before it starts, regardless of changing personnel on the pitch.
     
  10. Kevin1954

    World Cup 26 Supporter ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

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    Spot on , however massive investment helps but only if it is channelled and managed correctly .
     
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  11. Petrov

    Petrov Squad Player

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    It's his pre and post match interviews that are really starting to irk me. I used to think he came across quite well and spoke a fair bit of sense but now everything he says is either a contradiction of something he said the week before or just complete waffle.
     
  12. Andyone

    Andyone Fringe Player

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    I agree to a point but Carlisle have building blocks and they are not pulling up any trees.
    I just wanted a plain discussion of a league game and discuss professional desires or shortfalls, whether that's the manager or players.
     
  13. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player

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    That's fine, I'll bow out of the discussion though because the question can't be answered properly with the caveat you've imposed.
     
  14. Petrov

    Petrov Squad Player

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    Just to add to this, I see the lastest question GA is posing to the players is 'are they a loser and quit, or are they a winner and keep competing?'
    After talk in the summer about recruiting players with a winning mentality and comments about the squad having a lot of strong characters and that he wouldn't swap any of his players for players at other league 2 clubs, you'd think this type of question wouldn't be necessary, yet here he is asking it.
     
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  15. Jordan

    World Cup 26 ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

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    I said it before, said it again in the summer, but Alexander is a manager with a ceiling. He'll steady a ship and will get points with his style, but he wont flash, he wont surprise, he will frustrate. He might get a promotion but in L1 he'd be so far out his depth he'd be sacked before November.

    However, as said above I completely agree that this league is about mentality, confidence and effort, more than ability. Carlisle went and splurged money on players who should fully be able to get promoted and have had careers above L2, however they have a shocking attitude on mega money for the level, it seems. Something feels off with this City side, they don't ever look like a team, they don't ever look fluid.

    Looking at the team we put out, the midfield and attack were all here last year and spent the majority of last season in the bottom half of the table until matchday 42 or 43. We struggled to score goals then, and its the same people on the pitch again, it's not surprising that we still struggle to look good going forward. The defence is constantly changing which doesn't help and neither does the injuries. But we signed people in the summer with injury issues, what did we expect to happen?

    Seems to be just a cocktail of mediocrity that's delivering round abouts what it should.
     
    vladimir, Andyone, Petrov and 2 others like this.
  16. Sunnybank

    World Cup 26 ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

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    I still think he will get us up this season. He is frustrating, and I am firmly in the GA in camp.

    Wish he'd stick to the script though. When we play the 5-3-2 or 3-2-3-2 if you want to call it that we do well. But it only works if you play the correct players. The way he set up at Fleetwood was different. I can sort of see what he was trying to do and it hasn't worked. I'm not sure Fleetwood was the game to try something different.

    But if Cook doesn't give that penalty away, we gain a point away from home at the very least. Fleetwood never looked like scoring again (albeit neither did we).

    His main goal now is to figure out a way of getting someone else to score some goals other than Cook.
     
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  17. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player

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    Which is what a few posters were saying in the summer only to be shouted down as negative by others who buy now are predictably quiet again.

    No doubt they'll be back in June though for a rinse and repeat of the stellar signings and best squad in the division projections again.
     
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  18. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player

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    The problem with that assessment though is that Fleetwood didn't need to score again so perhaps weren't prepared to take the gamble and decided to protect what they had. Something they did far too easily unfortunately.
     
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  19. Dennis

    Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    I agree. Is there no responsibility on those who have a fundamental impact in recruiting either the manager or the players? I'm thinking of those who set the playing and transfer budget for the manager such as Rupp and/or Sparks; or those who recruit the manager himself such as Rupp and/or Sparks (again) or those who work with the manager on the recruitment of the players such as Sharpe, Gent and Sparks.

    To boil the problem down to a choice between players and manager is simplistic and ignores the many other issues for any football club which together lead to success on the pitch or not. It's far more complex that simply asking whether the club's lack of success is either down to the players or the manager.
     
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  20. Bantamsteve

    Bantamsteve Impact Sub

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    His main goal now is to figure out a way of getting someone else to score some goals other than Cook.[/QUOTE]
    That isn't too difficult any fan knows Sanderson is capable of scoring goals where Oliver isn't
    So are Bobby and Kavanagh (on a good day)
    But ego and either benching them or playing them out of position prevents them scoring
    I do believe we have a squad capable of promotion but whether the manager or the squad could hack L1 is debatable
     
    vladimir likes this.

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