Quantcast
  1. Welcome to Bantam Talk

    Why not register for an account?

    Not only can you then get fully involved in the community but you also get fewer ads

  2. Premium Membership now Available


    Please see this thread for more details

    Dismiss Notice

Opta stats ruining football?

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Andyone, Jan 25, 2026.

  1. Andyone

    Andyone Fringe Player

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    720
    I appreciate that footballers these days are generally more fit than years gone by. However, players these days are judged on this, that and the other, ultimately deciding their worth in the transfer market. We don't see so much of the edge of the seat stuff as years gone by as players are conditioned to keep possession, complete pass rates successfully etc. Have these traits stifled entertainment to an extent, or is at as good as it's ever been?
     
  2. Klaatu

    Supporter World Cup 26 ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant F1 2026 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    4,247
    You know what they say about statistics?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator World Cup 26 WC 2026 3rd Place ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant F1 2026 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    8,080
    Likes Received:
    5,586
    It's nothing to do with stats though. It largely to do with foreign managers who have made the more structured style trendy, especially Pep. It's been fairly common in Europe especially Spain and Italy long before the level of stats we have now was a thing. At some point the trend will change and everyone will end up playing more free
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. Andyone

    Andyone Fringe Player

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    720
    But scouts use the information when seeking additions to the squad. Percentage of completed passes, tackles won etc
     
  5. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator World Cup 26 WC 2026 3rd Place ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant F1 2026 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    8,080
    Likes Received:
    5,586
    They use the stats to find a player that fits the profile of the way the manager wants to play though. The stats don't dictate who is signed. If you had a team managed by Pep and another by Jose they scouts aren't using the same stats to identify players for them both. For Jose they will looking for attackers and midfielders who are quick and transition play quickly while Pep they will be looking at completed passes and ball retention.

    Stats are just a tool for Scouts to narrow down target lists for which to then use the same methods to scout this shortlist as they always have
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Torpey-do, Kevin1954 and Stoneski like this.
  6. Kevin1954

    Supporter World Cup 26 ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    29,059
    Likes Received:
    26,429
    And back to 4-4-2 ?
     
  7. Kevin1954

    Supporter World Cup 26 ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    29,059
    Likes Received:
    26,429
    Nowt like seeing them play in belting down rain, bog of a pitch at 2 degrees . . ;)
     
  8. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator World Cup 26 WC 2026 3rd Place ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant F1 2026 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    8,080
    Likes Received:
    5,586
    There was a point, certainly in upper leagues where 4-4-2 was basically extinct but it certainly has had a bit of a revival in the last few season. Not sure we will ever get back to 4-4-2 being the norm and certainly not the traditional fairy static style of 4-4-2 (Those setting up in a 4-4-2 these days play it a bit more dynamically where that base shape evolves depending on where the ball is) but I've watched a decent number of matches this weekend where one of the teams setup in a core 4-4-2 structure

    Certainly seeing players in person is vital which is why clubs still have extensive scouting teams because while stats can certainly help you narrow lists down they can lack nuance even as they get more and more specialised. For example you will often see players with good progressive pass stats in foreign leagues who then struggle to do this in the Premier League and that's because they aren't a progressive passer in the mould of someone like Scholes who knows what he wants to do before he even gets the ball, they need time on the ball to evaluate their options and they don't get that time on the ball. You would only see that in person and are can also only form an opinion if that's because of the league or simply the player doesn't have the vision to see the play before they even have the ball
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. Kevin1954

    Supporter World Cup 26 ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    29,059
    Likes Received:
    26,429
    Yes that revival is growing for sure . It’s certainly an option, say plan B for teams that play 4-3-3 to bolster the middle . I think Liverpool do it frequently ? As Man U did yesterday ?
     
  10. Offcomedun

    Supporter P.L. 20/21 3rd Place ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2018
    Messages:
    7,677
    Likes Received:
    14,065
    West Ham played 442 in beating Sunderland.
     
  11. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator World Cup 26 WC 2026 3rd Place ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant F1 2026 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    8,080
    Likes Received:
    5,586
    West Ham like Man Utd were playing a bit more of a hybrid system. Bruno for Man Utd and Pablo for West Ham both were at times close to the main striker acting more like the traditional second striker in a 4-4-2 but they were also dropping into a midfield 3 (or going out wide allowing another player to move into a midfield 3.

    Sunderland were actually playing what was more like a traditional 4-4-2. Certainly at the top level the way Man Utd and West Ham do it is where things are going where you have multifunctional players and the formation will adjust all the time. So Man Utd had a base that was like a 4-4-2, but at times were in a 4-3-3 and even at times you had one of the CB's stepping up, the FB's tucking in and Dorgu and Amad dropping into a WB role to make a back 5 all triggered by what area the ball is in. It's most likely why Dorgu and Mbeumo have been starting while Cunhu and Sesko are on the bench as them along with Amad are more multifunctional
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Onside and Interested Bystander like this.
  12. borderlescott

    ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    Messages:
    6,380
    Likes Received:
    11,590
    What does my tits in atm is all these X and FB football accounts that make up completely pointless stats to big up a random player - few do it all the time with City.

    It’ll say something like, player x is the only defender in League One to have made x number of clearances, X blocks, and make 250+ passes.

    it just means nothing. They’re going through a database and toggling options, but it’s meaningless, just manipulating them to suit the narrative…..that player X is good etc.
     
  13. WIBSEY GAWBER

    WIBSEY GAWBER Fringe Player

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    147
    i think it may influence some players and the next play of the ball . How many wing backs race to the 18 yard line and instead of running on to the by line and crossing they stop and make a sideways or backwards pass. A completed pass as opposed to an unsuccessful cross looks better on the stats.
     
  14. Brent

    ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2023
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    475
    I like stats. I think they are useful and add to the game, but can't be relied on completely and need to be combined with common sense.

    That being said, for me, the Barclays Premier League was peak football entertainment.

    It was modern enough where players were 'athletes' (compared to generations before), but old enough where the entertaining aspects of the game hadn't been coached out yet.

    From 2010 onwards the game changed when coaches started to realise stuff like the below.
    • Shooting for long range is bad. You rarely score and give up possession the majority of the time. In the mid 2000s players like Ronaldo, Gerrard, etc would spam long range attempts. Entertaining stuff for a fan.

    • Retain possession at all costs. Losing possession is costly so don't attempt risky passes (ambitious diaganol balls etc). Pep's Barca and the Spain team were the first offenders of this.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice