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Levelling Up

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by bordeaux_et_ambre, Jan 14, 2026.

  1. bordeaux_et_ambre

    bordeaux_et_ambre Emergency Backup

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  2. bordeaux_et_ambre

    bordeaux_et_ambre Emergency Backup

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    Well, clearly it's not an 'official' thing and I used the term 'tier' on the spot while I was thinking about the idea... I'm not trying to 'rename' or coin a new phrase... I was simply trying to explain my thought.

    Positions do change frequently, and like you say, Peterborough were bottom not that long ago (although with a decent squad as I think Khela is another point in case as he made the grade with us as a tier 5 side last year and joined a tier 3 side over rejoining us).

    However, there's only two timeframe's in which players can join a club - pre-season and the midway point. And it's at that time when clubs and players make their decisions and I'm certain that the 'tier' (or whatever you want to call it) plays a big part.

    You mention football is over-analysed now. But that's precisely why I'm sure it's a major factor. Of course, not all transfers will be done this way, but I think because of the analysis, it's just as important to consider the level a player will compete at, and unless you consider all L1 teams as equal or you highlight only a handful of them on reputation or history then, you need to have a sway to measure a team. We always say the league table doesn't lie, so even though it's tight... it's a way of interpreting whether which clubs have more potential.

    Anyway, it's not exactly a proven theory so you might be right but I just think there's divisions within the divisions. It makes sense why we could only sign inexperienced players from L2 - that's more obvious because you know a team is in a higher division. But most promoted clubs from L2 either struggle or go back down within a few years and it makes a little sense when you frame it like that, because forget money as that's a completely different matter altogether... however, it's not a stretch to think they struggle because the best 'picks' choose the higher tier teams from the division and therefore they end up with the lesser quality.

    We can all play FM and say "sign him or him", but the reality is, not all players are available to sign for every club. In some cases it will be the parent team of a player they're loaning and they want their asset to grow as much value as possible, or it's the player who wants to compete at the highest possible level.

    I just think it essentially creates 6 divisions rather than 3, and unlike so many L2 teams who fail to kick on once promoted, we've managed to break through the barrier already which is why we have better options at our disposal.
     
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  3. bordeaux_et_ambre

    bordeaux_et_ambre Emergency Backup

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  4. bordeaux_et_ambre

    bordeaux_et_ambre Emergency Backup

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    I agree. I'm not trying to suggest they're gonna be guaranteed hits or that they'll help us win promotion. I just think the more you know about a player, your system, and their characteristics... the more you will make good choices rather than bad.

    Instead of having to sign players with hardly any experience which is essentially signing them blind, we know that he got promoted from this division to the Championship with Derby, playing on the left. And we also know (or the recruitment team will) that he's got certain qualities that our system needs.

    We've still got to wait and see... and cross our fingers, but at least we have a lot more information and reference points to analyse.
     
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  5. WilsdenBantam

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    Yeah, I totally get what you are saying, and like I say, a decent opening post. But it's as simple as we can attract better players than some of the loans we've had before because we are not in league 2. It was the same in league 2 between 07-13, we constantly had crap through the door and when we got promoted we brought in better players. But I do advise caution, as with any signing, there is no guarantee they will be a success.
     
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  6. bordeaux_et_ambre

    bordeaux_et_ambre Emergency Backup

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    I suppose tier 2 teams will be up against Championship players and if you got the offer then I think more often than not, a player or his club will want the highest possible level.

    Of course, there are other factors too like you mentioned that come in to play. And maybe a promotion in a lower division is more attractive than a struggle at the bottom of a higher league.

    It's not a black and white theory but it does help to illustrate how all those teams struggled after promotion and either failed to break into the top half of L1, or got relegated back down.

    And I think that's significant because this would obviously factor into decision making before the season starts, and now, at the midway point. If you're a player and newly promoted Port Vale come in for you along with established Stevenage... then assuming location isn't a problem and the money is near enough the same, then I'm pretty sure the majority would choose Stevenage purely because they re viewed as a safer bet.

    There are so many variables involved that I wasn't trying to suggest this was the only way players select a club, but if players didn't try to figure out who would fare better, then the leagues would be more open like back in the day when you could take a division 2 team and win the European Cup within a couple of years.

    Today, there's more money the higher up you go and so you want to choose the vehicle most likely to take you there which is why so many teams go back down... the best players available choose the top half teams, so the bottom half need to sign players of less quality and therefore the league plays out the way most of us expect. There are always exceptions, and this year that appears to be us and all of a sudden, we have access to players that were out of bounds back in August.
     
  7. Klaatu

    ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant Supporter

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    I'm filing this thread under TLDR;

    I'm out.
     
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  8. Brent

    ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

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    You know reading and responding to threads is optional, right?
     
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  9. Bantamshell

    Bantamshell Squad Player

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    Definitely true that we're operating at a different level now and our current position makes the days of 'fishing in the sh!t pool' behind us we can really attract a better calibre of player in January. I am so glad we had a good christmas period as it came off the back of a bit of a shaky spell and it puts us much better placed to do good business.

    I was thinking imagine if we'd had a crystal ball a year ago to now. The thought of us being third in L1 and offloading Pattison, Cook and Halliday would be unthinkable!
     
  10. bailiff bridge bantam

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    ^^^^^^
    It’s this.

    All day long.
     
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  11. Bantam75

    Bantam75 Impact Sub

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    I remember something about Mansfield coming up a couple of seasons ago and keeping the majority of their league Two squad in the division above. For the first half of the season it worked well but after January they plummeted down the table

    Now it’s clear that lessons have been learned from an example such as this. As much as we hold members of our League Two team in high regard, it was painstakingly obvious that some of them would not make the cut. We weren't lucky, for a lack of better term, as compared to 12/13 where the core of the squad was capable of playing in League One (Davies, McCardle, Derby, Meredith, Jones, Hanson, Wells etc)

    so in that sense we've done well, not to dissolve the foundations of the team so soon but to consolidate in League One, before making drastic changes. As far as our recent exits go, nobody can really say that any of them were the best option in their respective positions given the system we play. It was the right call. And yes, had we not been at the top end of the table, it is unlikely we’d be able to convince the likes of Ashby for example, who was attracting Championship interest, to come here and play for us

    all in all, it is a nice feeling, to know that other clubs see us on an upward trajectory, and believe that their youth players would develop well here. Great credit goes to the Management, Sharpe and Rupp for investing funds back into the club
     
  12. Keefly Bantam

    ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant Supporter

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    Brilliant well balanced post.
     
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  13. Keefly Bantam

    ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant Supporter

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    It does seem that way. Still 2 weeks or so of the transfer window to go.

    Would be great to come out of it in the top 2 spots with a really strong, agile squad able to push on and not just tread water. Looking at the type of signings made we are definitely not looking to tread water.

    Was thinking today how much of the gate receipts from playing Newcastle have now enabled us to bring the 2 Newcastle lads in?
     
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  14. Rogered Tart

    ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

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    Would have thought the budget is the healthiest its been in a long time, what with the game you mentioned and averaging 20,000 at home. Plus what i guess were three decent salaries in Cook, Patto and Halliday. Not sure how much of the salaries we are paying for the recently signed players but i don't see us breaking our structure in the summer, never mind in January. I think we will see one or two more leave and be replaced by more loans.
     
  15. bordeaux_et_ambre

    bordeaux_et_ambre Emergency Backup

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    I'm not actually French... or from Bordeaux.

    'bordeaux et ambre' means 'claret and amber' :)
     
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  16. Brent

    ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant

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    Ha, fair enough. I read it as Bordeaux (place) and amber.
     
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  17. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

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    Indeed.

    Added to which, in any given League, the bigger clubs are like juggernauts in a positive and negative sense. When things are bad, it takes a hell of a lot to turn it around. When its good and you have momentum, that momentum becomes self fulfilling and can be a powerful force. I just hope we have the intent and means to keep fuelling and reasonably investing in this side, because it'll be a long time before we have such a great opportunity to get back to and stabilise in the championship.
     
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  18. Klaatu

    ⚽ P.L.25/26 Entrant Supporter

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    Exactly, if we have any ambition we will need to fund a sustainable presence in the Champ. If we fall short and get relegated we will lose a lot of money and won't be able to repeat the feat in the foreseeable future... unless we get bought by some mega rich entity.
     
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